mu6sman

salam, I think i've been misunderstood, never do I allow anyone to attribute fellow muslims with 'kufr' or 'shirk', there's a vast difference between shirk of ancient Arabians and of nowadays. Back then people knew exactly what they were doing, committing 'shirk' but nowadays knowledge of tawhid is at a premium. Besides other variations, there still is similarity and that is what I warn against, only a warning, nothing more, nothing personal. Salam!

mere piyare bhai, jab aap meri post sari parhi hi nahin to meri “Usloob-e-Tahreer” se waqif kaise ho gaye? aur phir masha’llah bilaa tehqeeq maqaam-e-yaqeen tak bhi pohanch gaye! Rahi baat najdi ya wahhabi ki to bhai sunnat-e mutahhirah hammey batati hai ke agarchey baat karney wala shaitaan hi kyun na ho, agar wo baat neik hai to maan leni chahiye. Lekin is sunnat se faida uthaney ke liye zuroori hai ke ta’assubaat aur andhi taqleed ki dunya se bahir nikla jaye. aap ka kehna ke mein topic chorhta nahin, bulkul theek farmaya, aur ahl-e-sunnat ki nishani yehi hai ke yo haqq baat kabhi nahin chorhtey. Aap sab mere bhai hain, mera aap se koi zati ikhtilaf nahin, han mere nazdeek jo haqq baat hogi usey bayan karna mujh par wajib hai, Allaah Ta’aala hamari ghaltiyan mu’aaf farmayein aur apne Rasoolﷺ ki hidayat se munawwar karein, ameen!

Salamu ‘alaykum, I’m sorry but why do you need to get angry? All I’m trying to do is create distance between Tawhid and Trinity, what you should’ve done is acknowledge me for it, unless you really do have close affiliation with those Nasranis. Apparenty, you seem conforming their ideas. I’m as ahlu’l-Sunnah as you are and no one has any right to take that away from me, This is a world of knowledge where each one is entitled to his opinion, why do you need personalize the issue? Why should you make this a matter of personal pride and ego? You can call me a wahabi or a sahabi, qadri or padri it doen’t matter to me, but none of this changes the fact that ahl-e sunnah stands for truth, be it one person. Whoever is found upon the truth of Islam is ahlu’l-sunnah. I believe my opinion to be correct upon the manhaj of ahl-e-sunnat wa’l-jamaa’t unless proven wrong, thus far I have seen nothing substantial against it. It’s one thing having a commonality like say belief in God and messenger-ship etc, but when you have something clearly exclusive to a later ‘developed’ and a deviant form of Christianity and people in the Muslim community start replicating it then I will do what I have to do, so don’t get angry. If I understand correct, what you’re saying is that Christians, when they say Jesus[p] is “Noor from Noor”, it’s absolutely fine? When they say he was “begotten not made...of the same Substance as the Father” there’s nothing in wrong that? And that he was “made flesh” only superficially i.e. he wans’t human? Based on one spurious ‘hadith’ you’re willing to affirm all these un-Qur'anic Christian formulated beliefs? You assert everything was made through the Prophet’s noor, though something Scripture never teaches, if we take that for granted then we’re left with an absurd idea that everything is noorani!!! You and me, angels and Iblis, all are noor in essence?! Is that what you’re trying to convey my brother? Do clarify... What’s good to see is you actually read A Qur’anic ayah; Thanks for those ‘ayahs’?! though I only see one, maybe my other eye isn’t working, but seriously; have you ever reflected upon what ‘light’ hereat means? Do you mean to say the Prophet[p] was noorani in substance like the angels? If so then know ye that noor prostrated to turbah. You don’t think he was of the jinn or some other alien kind, and neither was he, in essence, a human being, so then what was he? The only remaining option I can think of is the Christian polytheistic kalima “Noor min Noor” i.e. he was of the same substance as God, “begotten, not made” and that is sheer blasphemy. So firstly you need articulate your rather alienistic and ambiguous creed whatever it is. Meanwhile, suffice for me is Allaah and His Rasoolﷺ as witnesses; Say: I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner. [Al-Qur'an, 18:110] Ayaat to this effect are aplenty and so clear that we need not look elsewhere, and I need not reproduce them here just for the sake of lengthening, a single ayah, at least for me, is enough. See for Example: [3:164, 41:6, 62:2] Allaah’s Apostleﷺ said: “O Allaah Muhammed is a human being. I loose my temper just as human beings do...” [Muslim] And he said: “I am only a human being, and you bring your disputes to me, some perhaps more eloquent in their plea than others, so that I give judgement on their behalf according to what I hear from them. Therefore, whatever I decide for anyone which by right belongs to his brother, he must not take anything, for I am granting him only a portion of hell.” [Abu Dawud] One can narrate more sayings but truth only needs alluding, it manifests itself. But just to add another, mother ‘Aisha[ra] said: “He (the Messengerﷺ) was a human from among other humans (بشرا من البشر), he use to wash his cloths, milk his goats and do his chores himself.” [shamaa'il Tirmidhi] In my Book, the Holy Qur’an, the Prophet[p] is indeed noor there’s no doubt about that, I say he was ‘noor-e-mujassam’, ‘the embodiment of light’, but not in essence (dhaat) as is famous among the juhalaa’ (Christians and some muslims), rather in attribute (sift) he was noor, i.e. despite being human liable to errors, the Prophet’s soul was so pure, so noble that not even the highest angels could match the level of purification and servitude he attained. From head to toe he was a shining light for all to take heed from, his whole self, every act he did, each word he spoke, every advice he gave, was filled with guidance and a light which dispels darkness and jahalah, he was siraaj-e muneer, he was rahmatu’l-li’l-’Aalameenﷺ. The noor that he was and the noor with which he came with (the Qur’an) are two guides, the latter an inscription whereas the former it’s implementation. Noor implies knowledge and guidance as in the Qur’anic parable of Surah Fatir 19:22. So we as ahl-e sunnah say with great pride that our Qur’an is complete guidance (noor), and the one upon which it was revealed is also complete guidance (noor), thus they are two perfect (kamil) guide (nooran). Thus did Qadhi Ayyad state whom you quoted in ‘response’. Ignoring everything affiliated with common sense and Islam, you base your whole argument on a baseless forgery; Oh really? So what would you say with regards to imam Suyuti and al-Ghummari (sufi affiliates), both declared it un-reliable? In fact ‘Abdullah al-Ghummari said in [islah Abyat Al-Burdah p.75] that: “first one who made this ‘Hadith’ famous is ibn ‘Arabi Al-Hatimi” Then this Hadith became famous in the books of Shi’ah and Sufiyah, and they quoted it without Isnad. And the first one according to my knowledge who attributed to ‘Abdur-Razzaaq is Al-Qastalani in his “Mawahib Al-Laduniyah” vol 1 p 46.... As-Suyuti also attributed to AbdurRazaq in his “Khasais”, and they are both from tenth century, and both did not mention any Isnad.” Albanee wrote: “‬I tried utmost to find a chain for this hadith but could not find any.” [‬Ta’liq, ‬1/34] ‬You conveniently forgot Ismail bin Muhmmad ‘Ijluni (d: 1162H) who after relating this ‘hadith’ attests to not finding any sanad for it, the question of it being good or weak doesn’t even arise. And are you gonna say al-‘Ijlooni was mistaken, if yes then why can’t these other scholars and especially sufis (famous for inventing ahadith) you mentioned be mistaken also? Or maybe “these are all wahhabis” which would simply be abuse of knowledge on your part. Shaykh Ghummari concluded: “As-Suyuti said in his “Al-Hawi”: “It is not proven”, and this is an ugly Tasahul (being soft), rather it is clearly fabricated.” [ibid] No one prior to al-Qastalani (d.923) ever referred this spurious ‘hadith’ to ‘Abdu’l-Razzaq. Of course ‘Abdu’l-Razzaq was reliable and shaykhayn reported extensively from him, then the question arises, why didn’t they report a ‘tradition’ of such magnitude as this? In fact none of the early hadith scholars quoted anything the like of ‘hadith-e-noor’ from him. How could these great scholars be so neglectful of a matter so 'crucial' (as you would hold) in Muslim aqeedah? The thing is you need not even be a scholar of hadith to recognize it’s spuriousness. It’s so obvious any sane person with limited Islamic knowledge can see that this ‘lie’ attributed to our Prophet[p] and his companion[ra] carries sufi terminologies that were invented, as we know of history, when Sufism achieved it’s adolescence, so to speak, centuries later. The narration talks about different maqaamaat (stations) and follows philosophical tendencies in affirming personified agency in the process of creation, or in their words ‘the second intellect’, i.e. the First Intellect created (extracted) the Second Intellect, and both together created (again extracted) the Third Intellect..! The same notion which Christians later took on with relevance to Christ[p]. Some of the sufis you quoted were pure philosopher, these guys don’t believe in miracles, hell or heaven, angels, and most importantly, they deny transcendent causation. So instead of saying the Primal Being produced the Second Cause, philosophers in garb of mysticism (sufism) say Allaah ‘created’ the causal Light which is noor-e-Muhammadi[p]. And all of this is pure misguidance from the Holy Qur’an. Imagine a reality of such magnitude and Allaah did not see fit to mention it in His holy book? Give me a break. On the contrary Allaah makes it pretty clear: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? [Al-Qur'an, 21:30] But I have to apologize for one thing, I linked the whole idea with Christian heresies, whereas your cosmological theory is traceable even in Hinduism, and I know you insatiable but still insha'llah I plan to show that soon proving once and for all whence sufis made up this FILTH, yes FILTH; for everything falsely attributed to our Prophet[p] is exactly that. May Allaah pardon and guide us!

Bismi’Allaahi’l-Rahmaani’l-Raheem! That you see above is part of Christianity’s ‘official’ Creed regarding the nature of Christ[p] which was formulated at the council of Nicaea in the year 325C.E known commonly as the Nicene Creed (عقیدہ نیقیہ). And what follows is a brief look and study of some false Christian ideas that have crept into Muslim minds. Since I keep myself busy in da’wah with Christians, debating them on the doctrine of Trinity and Divinity etc, I have noted that some notions to which Christians profess faith have found their way in Muslim homes under guise, and now these false notions are being openly propagated among illiterate and ignorant Muslims in masjids and on TV. Here-under are some of these mutually fallacious ideas prevalent among Christians, as well as, un-fortunately I might say, modern day Muslims. Durood and Salaam are of course part of every Muslim's daily life, each and every day Muslims send blessings and peace upon the Prophet in particular, and everyone affiliated with him in general. Many types of durood-o-salaam are prevalent among us, best of which was taught by the Prophet himself beyond which we need not look for any other type of durood, for there is no better durood than this one. ‘Abdu’l-Rahmaan bin Abi Layla reported that Ka’b bin ‘Ujra[ra] met me and said; “Shall I give you a present? Once the Prophet came to us and we said; ‘O Allaah's Apostle! We know how to greet you; but how to send ‘Salaat’ upon you? He said; ‘Say: Allaahumma salli ‘alaa Muhammadin-wa’alaa Aali Muhammadin, kamaa sal-laita ‘alaa Aali Ibraheema innaka Hameedu-Majeed. Allaahumma barik ‘alaa Muhammadin-wa ‘alaa Aali Muhammadin, kamaa baarakta ‘alaa Aali Ibraheema, innaka Hameedu-Majeed.” [bukhari, Book of Invocations] But the durood we here with replete upon the tongues of our learned Mullahs in mosques and in unshaad concerts, and even at times out of place before the Adhaan goes as follows; الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یا نور من نور اللہ ‭Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with any type of durood, except one as this, for it contains a phrase that I find predominantly with Christians. Consider the underlined phrase above in the Christian creed; “Light from Light”, in Arabic that would be Noor min Noor. I’ll explain ahead what ‘noor’ actually stand for later, but to finish this observation let me say that just as the Christians consider Jesus[p] to be Light (Jesus) from Light (God), so also some muslims ignorant of reality regard the Prophet as Noor (Muhammad) from Noor (Allaah) (astaghfirullah!). Aren’t we, deliberately or in-advertently, echoing from our mosques the same creed (‘aqeedah) as that of our misguided predecessors (Christians)? This is indeed a cause for grave concern, did not Allaah’s Messenger say: “Whoever resembles a people is one of them.” [Abu Dawud] Allaahu Akbar! Yet we Muslims, a’oodhubillah!, are imitating Christians, not just in culture or sociality, but even more dangerously: we’re imitating them in kalimah and creed. Allaah’s pardon is sought! Narrated ‘Umar[ra] that Allaah’s Messenger said: “Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised Ibn Mariam[p], for I am only a Slave. So call me Servant of Allaah and His Apostle.” [bukahri, Kitab al-Ambia] Now take the Christian sacrilege that Jesus[p] (a’oodhubi’lah) was “Begotten, not made”, that is to say: he wasn’t created as other humans are from dust, rather he evolved eternally from the very essence of God (dhaat), or as their creed goes “...of one Substance (jauhar) with the Father.” You’ll be shocked to realize, as am I, that similar tenets have crept into Muslim homes and mosques. Know that difference between 'begetting’ and 'making’ is that to beget, simply stated, means ‘to produce or extract from self’, whereas, ‘making’ is a quality, it is an ‘act of attribute’. So Allaah doesn’t produce Jesus from His Self, He can plainly Will Jesus[p] into being out of nothing by means of His quality of free-will and power. Now consider this shocking ‘hadith’ I found which people have shamelessly attributed to our Prophet; “قال اللہ تعالٰی: خلقت محمد من نور وجھی والمرد من الوجھ ذات المقدسۃ” “I created Muhammad from the Light (Noor) of My Face, and by 'Face’ is meant the Holy Self’!” [Riyad al-Salikeen, Abdul-Ghaffoor ‘Arshi Qadri] Which means, and I seek Allaah’s refuge before expounding this filth; Allaah ‘produced’ or ‘extracted’ the soul of the Prophet Muhammad from His own Self (dhaat), the same process which occurs in the act of siring, and just as Christians would hold with regards to Christ[p]. The word ‘create’ used in this (filthy, not qudsi) ‘hadith’ is merely a tool for deception, hiding the true face of what’s actually being conveyed. What it says is: God ‘produced’ Muhammad from His Self’, and there’s no difference between this and the Christian belief. (astaghfirullah!) “By him all things were made...” says our Christian friend, i.e. everything was made by God, the Father but through the agency of Jesus[p]. St. Paul, perhaps the prime culprit in distorting Jesus’[p] true identity, said: “He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created...” [Col 1:15-16] He repeats this creed throughout letters he sent to various cities, to the Corinthians he said: “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” [1Cor 8:6] In obviousness, this was another idea developed much after Jesus’[p] departure, an idea untraceable from the synoptics where something like Jesus’[p] true sayings are found. But believe it or not, some Muslims who just can’t live barren have adopted the same Christian creed with regards to our holy Prophet Muhammad. There’s a saying called ‘hadith-e noor’ which goes like this; “‭O Jabir! ‬The first thing created by Allaah was your Prophet's Light‭ (‬Noor‭)‬... Then when Allaah willed creation, He parted that Light (Noor-i Muhammadi) into four parts,‭ ‬from one He made the Qalm,‭ ‬Looh from the second,‭ ‘‬Arsh from the third,‭ ‬and rest of creation from the fourth...” ‭[‬Kashf al-Khufa,‭ Isma’eel bin Muhammad al-‘I‬jlooni,‭ ‬1/311. ‘Ijlooni himself could not find any sanad for this ‘hadith’‭] ‭Do you see any creedal difference between the Dhaalloon (نولاض) and self-proclaimed Muslimoon (نوملسم)? I need not even expound further, it’s so obvious whence these Muslims have taken this aqeedah. May Allaah have mercy on us! ‭“(Jesus) Was made flesh” i.e. he wasn’t actually human, he simply appeared so says the Christian. Meaning; outwardly, Jesus[p] was mortal like any other, but inwardly, he was Light from Light, or plainly put: he was God in Real! The spurious ‘hadith’ I just quoted above, the so called ‘hadith-e noor’, has other versions as well, and is too lengthy for me to post all of it here; instead, I selected this excerpt which reveals this astonishing news; ‭“...and from it (Noor-e Muhammadi) the souls of the Prophets were created and they said: ‘La ilaha Ila Allah Muhammad Rasulullah!’ …then the shape of Muhammad was created like his shape in the world… then the light of the Prophets were created from the light of Muhammad, then he looked at this light...” (This ‘hadith-e noor’ should rather be known as ‘hadith-e jahiloon!) ‭I know this senseless passage is bit of a mind torturer, but basically what it tries to convey is that as Jesus[p] was ‘produced, not made’ then came into the world in superficial human flesh, so also the Prophet, evolved from Allaah’s Self; came in the finite world in human appearance (libaas-e basharriyat). I use to spend time trying to convince Christians that Jesus[p] was in fact a human being like Adam[p] as the Qur’an states, little did I know then we muslims had taken up similar, if not the very same ideas regarding the Prophet Muhammad. As Christians believe Jesus[p] wasn’t really human, so also, few of our Muslim brethren following Christian footsteps believe the Prophet wasn’t really human either, only appeared so to those of exoteric vision, how convenient. ‭All this is part of what the holy Prophet warned with regards to our assimilating erroneous Christian ideas. Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri[ra] narrated from the Prophet: “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them.” We (companions) said, “O Allaah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?” [bukhari, Book of Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah] ‭May Allaah guide us!

سلام، میرے بھائی اگر آپ نے قرآن پڑھا ہے تو بتائیں اللہ تعالٰی کو چھوڑ کر کسی اور کو پکارنا اللہ کا مقابل بنانا نہیں تو اور کیا ہے؟ اسی کو تو اسلام نے منع کیا ہے ورنہ مشرکین مکہ و حاضرہ بیچاروں کا کیا قصور؟

al-Salamu 'alaykum! قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "‏من مات وهو يدعو من دون الله ندا دخل النار." عبد اللہ رضی اللہ عنہ نے کہا کہ نبی کریم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے ایک بات ارشاد فرمائی اور میں ایک بات اور کہتا ہوں۔ حضور صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرا کہ اوروں کو اللہ کے مقابل پکارتا رہا وہ جہنم میں جائے گا، اور میں نے یو ں کہا کہ جو شخص اس حالت میں مرے کہ اللہ کے سوا کسی کو ند بنا کر نہ پکارے وہ جنت میں جائے گا۔ ‏‏Narrated by 'Abdu'llah; The Prophet made a statement and I add another. The Prophet said: "Whoever dies while still invoking anything other than Allah as a rival, will enter Hell (Fire)." And I said: "Whoever dies without invoking anything as a rival to Allah, will enter Paradise." [Related by Bukhari in Kitab al-Tafsir]

بھائی! میری اس گزارش پر بھی نظر ثانی کریں۔ ایک سوال کیا تھا جس کا ابھی تک جواب نہیں ملا۔ جواب آپ نہیں دیتے اور بد مذہب ہمیں کہتے ہو۔ تمہے کیا ہو گیا؟

السلام علیکم معذرت کے ساتھ کہتا ہوں لیکن یہ اولیا اپنی مدد پر آپ قادر نہیں تو کسی اور کی کیا کریں گے۔ ان اولیا کے شہر بلکہ انکے اپنے دربار محفوظ ہیں نہیں۔ چاہے داتا دربار ہو یا بغداد۔۔ امریکہ ہو یا طالبان ہر جگہ ان پر گولے برسائے جا رہے ہیں۔ خدارا انکا پلہ چھوڑو اور صرف اللہ کا ھاتھ تھام لو اگر فلاح چاہتے ہو۔

al-hamdulillah, wa'l-salaatu wa'l-salaam 'alaa rasoolillah! Allaah Ta'aala describes for us in the Qur'an the correct manner of invoking Him, seek His aid and have prayers granted. He taught al-Fatihah to His slave and ordained its daily five time recital in salaah. In it we pray: Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace... Foremost recipients of Allaah's grace and favor are His prophets[as], they being the cream of humankind, offer us in their life-style the best pattern of conduct to replicate. The words of prayer (دعا) used by prophets and awliya' as mentioned by Allaah in His book are purest and dearest to Him. These are words which He Himself taught them and Allaah, the Generous One, saved these prayers in His Book so that next generations may take heed therewith and call upon their Lord by them. He, the Almighty narrates stories of His most noble servants, and mentions the prayer of Adam[p] and Eve[p] when they disobeyed their Lord as a result of which were taken out of paradise, they said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost." The prayer of Noah[p] when he saw his son drowning: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!" The plea of Job[p] when overwhelmed with decease and afflictions: "Truly distress has seized me, but Thou art the Most Merciful of those that are merciful." Discretion of Joseph[p] fearing shamefulness: "O my Lord! the prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me: Unless Thou turn away their snare from me, I should (in my youthful folly) feel inclined towards them and join the ranks of the ignorant." David[p] in battle against Goliath: "Our Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us against those that reject faith." Prayer of Moses[p] when he killed an innocent soul: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul! Do Thou then forgive me!" Prayer of Zechariah[p] as he prayed for his heir: "O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee! O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!" Abraham[p], when he prayed for a son: "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous!" Jesus[p], when he sought provision: "O Allaah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)." The Prophet on the dark day in Ta'if, when he was mocked, pelted with stones, forced to flee the city, and it seemed the whole world had turned against him; "O Allaah! To You alone I make complaint of my helplessness, the paucity of my resources and my insignificance before mankind. You are the most Merciful of the mercifuls. You are the Rabb of the helpless and the weak, O Rabb of mine! Into whose hands would You abandon me: into the hands of an unsympathetic distant relative who would sullenly frown at me, or to the enemy who has been given control over my affairs? But if Your wrath does not fall on me, there is nothing for me to worry about. I seek protection in the light of Your Countenance, which illuminates the heavens and dispels darkness, and which controls all affairs in this world as well as in the Hereafter. May it never be that I should incur Your wrath, or that You should be wrathful to me. And there is no power nor resource, but Yours alone." In the fierce battle of Badr with a minute muslim army facing complete annihilation at the hands of Makkan associationists, the Prophet cried out to his lord : "O Allaah! Should this group be defeated today, You will no longer be worshipped." Isn't this an example we all must follow? Salam!

al-salaamu alaykum! Brother Sag-Attar, I never said Shirk is a "simple mistake", neither am I for Fatwas pronouncing people as Kafirs or Mushriks or blasphemers and all that sort. And I appreciate your admittance that such statements contain (at least elements of) Shirk. I have read some books as such you've presented but my aim is not to defame anyone, or ridicule and distort their image, rather, if I'm sincere and truly hope well for my muslim brother, I would prefer Islah (rectification) any day. What I know is that debandis are improving everyday and they sincere seek rectification and I believe me all of us need to follow that example. Firstly, each of us needs to look at ourselves and cleanse the rancor and hate that Satan has so skillfully planted in our hearts against each other. It is understandable if they are reluctant to openly condemn narrations of their elders, and I wouldn't call them to do anything as such either. What matters is they wish to correct themselves in action, not merely in statement and that's far better. By the way, I still await eagerly any sort of response on what I stated on this topic in post #64.

al-Salaamu 'alaykum! I'd agree with Nasir bhai on that, but still await an explanation from the other side on what I stated in brief. And why should Deobandis or anyone else stick to what wrong one of their elders may have committed (if it be considered wrong)? When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger": They say: "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." what! even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance? [Al-Qur'an, 5:104] If some of my elders, or anyone else' for that matter, make mistakes, why must I repeat them acting like sheep? Why follow blindly the ways of those who walked not in the Noor of the Rasool?

al-Salaamu 'alaykum! What I need to know is which thing is it, if the creed of the Prophet's omniscience be correct, that the Prophet does not know? If you say 'nothing' then where's the difference between Allaah's limitless Knowledge and the unlimited 'Ilm of Rasool-Allaah? To say that Allaah's 'Ilm is by necessity (ذاتی), whereas Rasool-Allaah's derivative (عطائی) makes no difference when it comes to knowing something. How many students do we see surpass their teachers in knowledge; we can't say the student's 'ilm is still inferior non-equal only because it's derived. Surely the Prophet had 'Ilm al-Ghayb which is a necessary ingredient for prophecy (نبوۃ). But was he بکل شیء علیم? The power of evidences seems to negate that possibility, the Qur'an is amply clear Allaah alone is Omniscient. Umm 'Aisha[ra] "...And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allaah says: "None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah." [bukhari] I want to know; which ghayb was umm 'Aisha[ra] talking about if indeed did the Prophet know all? The fact that Allaah's Messenger will testify on the day of Reckoning: "... Lo! Some men from my ummah will be brought and then (the angels) will drive them to the left side (Hell-Fire). I will say. 'O my Lord! (They are) my companions!' Then a reply will come (from Almighty), 'You do not know what they did after you.' I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117) [bukahri] proves with clarity my personal view. Of course you have your own opinion on this and I'd liek to hear it, but do keep it reasonable and please make it brief, (some of these posts are too long). Thank you and jazaakumullah!

السلام علیکم و رحمۃ اللہ It's like I said in another forum, we cannot, and I mean cannot declare "kufr" upon any fellow muslim, it is immoral, baseless and fruitless. Why are we hell bent on spreading hatred among each other, who benefits of muslims are divided amongst themselves, and why are we so eager to make Kafirs out of muslims when our beloved Prophet, man with the best conduct and morals whom we're suppose to replicate, only had one aim, that was to make muslims out of kafirs? Please for Allaah's, His Messenger's and the Deen's sake, stop dividing muslims into kafirs, and murtads, and mushriks, and blasphemers. We are all muslims, but we're also humans, and humans are bound to err. If we're really sincere, we should go forward and do Islah (rectification) of each other hoping for Allaah's pleasure and welfare for fellow muslim Ikhwan and the ummah as a whole. There's no point of benefit in expelling others from Islam and thinking 'I alone am muslim', such behavior is totally erroneous, and pleases none but al-Shaytaan, not al-Rahmaan. Thank you and be mindful!

al-Salaamu 'alaykum! I apologize if I any of you, in my previous post, found my remarks harsh. It just frustrates and infuriates me to see muslims, to whom Allaah Ta'aala addresses as follows; O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. [Al-Qur'an, 5.54] should expel each other from the fence of Islam. When Allaah states: O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do. [Al-Qur'an, 4.94] Whereas I came here not to create any rift between us, but try to achieve a commonality upon worship of the One Allaah. My niyah was very transparent in that I never called anyone a "murtad" or a "mushrik", rather I simply wanted people to be more aware of this other (my) view point which I feel is very strong and worthier to believe in. And If my investigation leads me or you to different or contradictory conclusions then; the rightful pattern of conduct as taught by our beloved Prophet would be; Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. [Al-Qur'an, 16.125] Not go out of our ways to condemn and ridicule and call each other names, such behavior is non-tolerable even towards non-believers, leave aside people of faith. One of you should take this as a matter of self-esteem, it's not about our egos, it's about attaining the truth, and again if I any hurt anyone's feeling, let me other my sincere apologies, and I also pray Allaah to pardon our mistakes and protects us from indulging in ridiculing one another, or ever describing our bretheren with attrobutes they do not possess, for in such case, we'd be among the oppressors (ظالمون).

Alhamdulillah, wa'l-salaatu wa'l-salaam 'alaa Rasoolillah! al-Salamu 'alaikum! Brother, you've wasted no time to expel (خارج) me from Islam, simply because I have a different point of view and see things different than you, whereas I, on the other hand, have been calling you 'brothers'. The Prophet Muhammad came to convert people to Islam, and it's sad to see that we muslims, contrastingly, are hell bent on making kafirs out of muslims (shame on us!). Haven't you heard the Prophetic saying: When a man calls his brother an unbeliever, it returns (at least) to one of them. [Muslim, 116] How can you be so casual in declaring kufr upon fellow muslims when it can easily turn towards you? Even if lets suppose you're point of view is correct, does that give you licence to make anyone who conforms not your view a kafir? Are you the judge or is He Allaah? Such behavior has been the reason for our downfall as a community and has allowed for non-muslims to come and overtake our properties and our lands, and we're more concerned with making more and more kafirs. Does that help Islam one bit? Will such an act make Allaah happy and satisfied with you. Nay, I assure you! You've attempted to answer my post by trying to show the word dua (دعا) doesn't always mean invocation and then you go on to present some translations of your liking to 'prove' your point, how convenient. I believe you didn't read my post for if you had done so you wouldn't be suffering from this problem. Not only did you not read my post, but obviously you haven't even read some of your own books, namely, the exegesis on Kanzu'l-Iman written by Na'eem al-Din Muradabadi, who mentioned the hadeeth, as I did, which describes dua (دعا) as an act of worship (عبادہ) [al-Fatihah, 4], nay; the essence thereof. Here are some random translations of Surah Jinn, 18, for your benefit; Sahih International And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah , so do not invoke with Allah anyone. Muhsin Khan And the mosques are for Allah (Alone), so invoke not anyone along with Allah. Pickthall And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah. Shakir And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah: Dr. Ghali And that the mosques belong to Allah; so do not invoke, along with Allah, anyone. These are recognized english translations, I have Urdu translations as well (if you need) but even if someone translates 'dua' as 'worship' I have no problem with that too, since that would also negate your view that dua (worship) can be made to others with Allaah for it would be an act of worship directed to others which is Shirk. I explained that every prayer is not worship, only the prayer made to some super-natural or non-present being with the belief such and such has super-natural powers to heal, provide, safeguard, relieve, etc is, otherwise, common invokes we call each other thereby is not worship and subsequent Shirk, again you should have read my post. I explained both categories of prayer (دعا) but you failed to read through it, maybe you weren't open minded enough to do so. Now what you have to do is show that dua to others, the way we beseech Allaah, isn't an act of worship. You never touched upon anything I mentioned in my post and instead copy\pasted your way to exemption. You never should how could beseeching God alone be anything but a praiseworthy act. If dua is something most desired my Allaah, would He then like it if we share it with others? You didn't answer my question that: کیا جسکی رسائی شہنشاہ تک ہو وہ چیلوں کے چکر کاٹے گا؟ Answer me: کیا اگر کوئی شخص مَر چکا ہو تو اسے پکارنا جہل اور بیوقوفی نہیں؟ Answer me: اگر مسلمان کا "المدد یا غوثِ اعظم!" کہنا ٹھیک ہے تو مشرک کے "یغوث المدد" میں کیا حرج ہے؟ Do you say in opposition to the Qur'an that: Christ[p] capable of providing aid and relieving hardship for Christians? Answer me: Is Allaah not sufficient for you that you always need ask others besides Him? Is Allaah so distant from you that you can't reach Him, except thru intermediaries? If so then whats the difference between you and pagans of old and new? Even Mushrikeen would call upon Allaah alone in open waters, and abandon their awliya, why must you call upon others everywhere, including the seas of Allaah? You made a grave error thinking the polytheists worshipped idols in stead of Allaah Ta'aala. The Mushrikeen believed in Allaah as their Sole Providence and the Qur'an is amply evident for it, their error was that they worshipped others partners (Ilah الہ means one that is worshipped, not Rabb or Khaliq) so that it may take them closer to Allaah. so they worshipped others to come closer to Allaah, whereas, you guys too, ignorantly I might add, pray (worship) others to acquire closeness with Allaah. The difference is they new their prayers were worship, whereas, you are un-aware of this fact. I'd also like to say that people, we need to change our way of thinking and be more open-hearted, and open-minded towards other views. No one group can claim to have perfection, and we need be open when knowledge comes to inspect it, and if it be found reasonable and conforming Divine commandments, it is our duty to accept the fact whether it pleases us or is detestable, so long as it's correct. For how much longer shall we confine ourselves to a limited frame of thought fashioned by people who have long gone and won't be asked of what we did. We're responsible for what we choose, and no one else is coming and who has gone will save us if we choose falsehood and ignorance over plain logic and truth (حق). May Allaah guide us all, ameen!