Kya Quran Shareef May 'shaheed" Kay Lafz Say Hazir O Nazir Muraad Lena Sahe Hay?

Haq3909 · March 22, 2014

AAP log aksar Quran shareef may muktalif ayat jis me AAP (saw) kay liyay "shahid" ka lafz aya hay , to us say hazir o nazir muraad letay ho.Kya aap log sabit kar saktay ho kay Shahid kay liyay hazir o nazir hona lazmi hay?Warna aap logo ka Shahid say yay istidlaal lenay bilkul ghalat hay.

Muazzin Azaan may din may 5 dafa gawahi deta hay leikin us nay kabhi aap (saw) ko nahi dekha or na he aap (saw) par wahi ko nazil hotay huway dekha hay...leikin phir bhi who shahadat deta hay.Pata chala kay Shahid kay liyay hazir o nazir hona lazmi nahi,agar mutabar or sachi zarai say bhi maloom ho jai to shahadat ho sakto hay.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Mughal...
janb Darood Pak ko pura likha karen

Khalil Rana · March 23, 2014

جناب حق انتالیس سو نو صاحب ! عرض ہے کہ آپ کے سوال کا جواب علامہ احمد سعید کاظمی کی درج ذیل تحریر میں موجودہے، آپ علامہ کاظمی علیہ الرحمہ کی کتاب تسکین الخواطر فی مسئلۃ الحاضر والناظر کا مطالعہ فرمائیں۔

http://www.mediafire.com/download/it10o181lsylm8k/taskeenul+khwater.pdf

Haq3909 · March 23, 2014

جناب حق انتالیس سو نو صاحب ! عرض ہے کہ آپ کے سوال کا جواب علامہ احمد سعید کاظمی کی درج ذیل تحریر میں موجودہے، آپ علامہ کاظمی علیہ الرحمہ کی کتاب تسکین الخواطر فی مسئلۃ الحاضر والناظر کا مطالعہ فرمائیں۔

http://www.mediafire.com/download/it10o181lsylm8k/taskeenul+khwater.pdf

Assalam u Alaikum,

Meri Post mostly English may hogi kyon kay mujhay urdu type karnay may dushwari hoti hay.

Aap nay jo hawala diya hay , us say mujhay bilkul tasali nahu huwi.Aye pehlay Surah Baqara ki ayat 143 parthay hay.

Ab aye khud is ki tafseer AAP Salallaho ALayhi Wa Sallam say suntay hay.

Ab aye Surah Al-Nisa Verse 41 ki taraf.

According to the Tafsirs, there are two possible meanings of “witness” when used in these verses (4:41, 2:143 and others).

1. He bears witness that he conveyed the message based on his knowledge of himself, and he witnesses that the earlier prophets conveyed the message based on the knowledge he received from revelation. This interpretation is consistent with other verses of the Qur’an (7:6, 28:85 and others) which show the Prophet will bear witness that he conveyed the message. This ummah will bear witness that the previous prophets conveyed the message, and it is clear this “witnessing” is not by means of having seen Nuh (‘alayhissalam) and the other Prophets, but by the knowledge this ummah has received from revelation. If this interpretation is taken, it cannot possibly be used to mean that the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) is Hazir o Nazir.

2. A second interpretation is that he witnesses over his ummah in terms of their acceptance or rejection of him. However, this meaning is applicable only for as long as he lived amongst them (i.e. only for the Sahabah and the disbelievers of his time), but when he passed away this type of “witnessing” ended, as explicitly mentioned by the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) himself in the explanation of this verse:

In the commentary of 4:41, al-Tabari narrates with a sound chain from the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) that he said after this verse was recited to him by ‘Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud, quoting the statement of ‘Isa (‘alayhissalam):

شهيدا ما دمت فيهم فلما توفيتني كنت أنت الرقيب عليهم وأنت على كل شيء شهيد

“I was a witness over them for as long as I was among them, and when You took me (i.e. when I passed away), You was the Watcher over them. You are Witness over all things.” (Qur’an 5:117)

Sanad: [ 'Abd Allah ibn Muhammad al-Zuhri, thiqah acc. to Abu Hatim and al-Nasa'i - Sufyan ibn 'Uyaynah, undisputed hadith master - 'Abd al-Rahman ibn 'Abd Allah ibn 'Utbah al-Mas'udi, thiqah acc. to many hadith critics - Ja'far ibn 'Amr ibn Hurayth, a narrator in Sahih Muslim, declared thiqah by al-Dhahabi - Sahabi, 'Amr ibn Hurayth]

There is another hadith which states :

ثنا يونس بن محمد بن فضالة الأنصاري، عن أبيه قال: وكان أبي ممن صحب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أتاه في بني ظفر، فجلس على الصخرة التي في بني ظفر اليوم، ومعه ابن مسعود ومعاذ بن جبل وناس من أصحابه، فأمر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قارئا فقرأ، فأتى على هذه الآية: فكيف إذا جئنا من كل أمة بشهيد وجئنا بك على هؤلاء شهيدا فبكى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم حتى ضرب لحياه وجنباه فقال: يا رب هذا، شهدت على من بين ظهري، فكيف بمن لم أره

It states that when this verse was recited then Prophet peace be upon him shivered and said "O Allah I am witness upon the people in which i am (living). How can I be witness of those to whom I have not seen?[Tafseer Ibn Abi Haatim 3/956, Tabrani is Mojam alKabeer 19/243, Wahidi in his Tafseer 2/55, Abu Nuyeem in Muarifa tul Sahaba no: 63]

Imam Haythamee said:

.رَوَاهُ الطَّبَرَانِيُّ، وَرِجَالُهُ ثِقَاتٌ

Narrated by atTabrani and Narrators are trustworthy[Majma az-Zawaid 4/7]

A narration found in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim mention that the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) in fact repeats this statement of ‘Isa (‘alayhissalam) on the plains of Resurrection when he is told that he has no knowledge of what some people from his ummah innovated after him.

Hence it says:-

This is, therefore, clear proof from the words of the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) himself in authentic hadiths that if we take the meaning of witnessing the response of his ummah from the characteristic of “witness” it only applies to his companions, those with whom he directly interacted, and it does not extend beyond them.

In explaining verse 4:41, al-Razi said:

واستشهدك على هؤلاء يعني قومه المخاطبين بالقرآن الذين شاهدهم وعرف أحوالهم ثم إن أهل كل عصر يشهدون على غيرهم ممن شاهدوا أحوالهم وعلى هذا الوجه قال عيسى عليه السلام: وكنت عليهم شهيدا ما دمت فيهم

“Allah will make you [the Prophet] witness over these, meaning his people that were addressed by the Qur’an who he saw and knew of their conditions. Furthermore, the people of every age will bear witness over other than them from those whose conditions they saw. Based on this, ‘Isa, peace be upon him, said: I was a witness over them for as long as I was among them.’”

Al-Qurtubi says of this verse that the intent is that he will be witness over the Kuffar of Quraysh. Then he said “it was said: the demonstrative noun is for the whole ummah,” but he alludes to this being a weak view by using the phrase “it was said.” Also he presented as proof of this view a narration that is clearly weak (as there is a majhul narrator in the chain, and it is maqtu‘ anyway).

Moreover, there is clear evidence from the Qur’an and Sunnah that the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) did not know how all of his ummah responded:

First, the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam)’s repetition of ‘Isa’s statement for himself both in this world and in the afterlife, as explained above.

Second, verse 5:109 of the Qur’an indicates according to some interpretations that the prophets (all of them) are unaware of the full details of the conditions of their peoples’ response to them, which is why they said “We have no knowledge.” In fact, Mulla ‘Ali al-Qari said in the exact place where Haddad quotes him from his commentary of Mishkat:

“This [witnessing] does not negate His statement: “the day when Allah will assemble the messengers and will say to them, “How were you responded to?” They will say, “We have no knowledge. Surely You alone have the full knowledge of all that is unseen” because response is different to conveying, and it (i.e. the response of their peoples) requires details the essence of which is comprehended only by Allah, as opposed to conveying itself which is from obvious necessary knowledge.”

Third, the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) is told about some of the innovators from his ummah on the plains of Resurrection by the angels إنك لا تدري ما أحدثوا بعدك and لا علم لك (“You do not know” and “You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you”), as recorded in the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim, which is clear evidence that even after death and on the plains of resurrection, he is unaware of the actions of some of his ummah. This is also proven by the hadiths from Bukhari and Muslim which say he will only recognise his ummah by the white marks on them (ghurran muhajjalin) from the traces of wudu’ (and not from his previous knowledge of them).

Fourthly, in a hadith al-Tirmidhi said is “sahih,” he narrates the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said: لا أراكم بعد عامي هذا (Perhaps I will not see you after this year of mine).

Fifthly, with respect to the earlier peoples, there are many verses of the Qur’an which explicitly say the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasallam) was NOT present where certain significant events happened to earlier peoples and prophets:

“And (O prophet,) you were not there at the Western side (of the mount Tur) when We delegated the matter to Musa, nor were you among those present… And you were not dwelling among the people of Madyan, reciting Our verses to them, but it is We who do send messengers. And you were not at the side of (the mount) Tur when We called (Musa)” (28:44-5)

“Nor were you among those present” – the word used for present here is “shahid.” So this verse clearly negates the meaning of shahid as being present and witnessing. And when it affirms “shahid” for him in other verses it is either according to another meaning of “witness” or restricted to those he interacted with.

Ibn Kathir says under the commentary of this verse:

أي وما كنت حاضرا لذلك ولكن الله أوحاه إليك

“You were not present (haadir) at that [event], but Allah inspired it to you.”

As Ibn Kathir mentions under the commentary of this verse, this is in fact proof of the Prophethood of the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasalam) as he was not present amongst earlier peoples, and yet related their tales. Ibn Kathir quotes similar verses:

“You were not with them when they were casting their pens (to decide) who, from among them, should be the guardian of Maryam, nor were you with them when they were quarrelling.” (3:44)

“You were not with them when they determined their object, and when they were planning devices.” (12:102)

Hence, the verses of the Qur’an explicitly state that the Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wasalam) was not present with Musa (‘alayhissalam), Maryam (‘alayhassalam), Shu‘ayb (‘alayhissalm) and Yusuf (‘alayhissalam) at significant events in their lives.

Balkay AAP Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam ke yay Hadeeth bhi dekhiyay.

Mazeed Eik aur hadeeth dekhay:

It is mentioned in Mawatta Imam Maalik:

So when Sahaba asked how will you recognise? Saadiq al-Masqood peace be upon him never said because i am witnessing and present untill the day of judgement.

Ab eik aur hadeeth:

Agar AAP Sallallho Alayhi Wa Sallam Hazir o Nazir hay , to yay kyon farmaya kay may nay unhay nahi dekha?

Bas Sabit huwa kay AAP Sallallaho Allayhi Wasallam kay liyay Shahid say har jaga Hazir o Nazir ka matlab lena ghalat hay.Wassallam.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Haq3909

MunAAm · March 23, 2014

roman me urdu likhne me dushwari hoti hai ya copy pste krne k liye urdu me nahi?

Haq3909 · March 23, 2014

roman me urdu likhne me dushwari hoti hai ya copy pste krne k liye urdu me nahi?

Yani Roman may Urdu type karnay may dushwari hoti hay.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Haq3909

AbuAhmad · March 23, 2014

Yani Roman may Urdu type karnay may dushwari hoti hay.

Copy paste karny se behtar hay k ap jo meaning samjhtay hain os ka saboot Mufasireen(Akabireen e Ahlesunnat) se paish kar dain.

Is k lea na ap ko Roman urdu mai likhna ho ga na he Urdu font mai.

Bas Mufasireen ke tafseer ka scan laga dei,

Haq3909 · March 23, 2014

Copy paste karny se behtar hay k ap jo meaning samjhtay hain os ka saboot Mufasireen(Akabireen e Ahlesunnat) se paish kar dain.

Is k lea na ap ko Roman urdu mai likhna ho ga na he Urdu font mai.

Bas Mufasireen ke tafseer ka scan laga dei,

Jee mainay mufasireen say hi paish kiya hay(upar hawalay check karay).AUr yaad rakhay kay aap Sallallaho Alayhi Wa Sallam ki apni tafseer kay agay aur koi tafseer qabil qabool nahi agar woh is kay khilaf jai :-)Wasallam

Edited March 23, 2014 by Haq3909

MunAAm · March 23, 2014

HAQ SAHAB AAPKO UPR BOOK LINK DI GAYI HAI KYA AAPNE USKA MUTALIAA KIYA?????

Khalil Rana · March 23, 2014

جناب آپ کے سوالات کا جواب کتاب تسکین الخواطر میں موجود ہے ، آپ اسے ڈائون لوڈ کرکے مطالعہ کریں۔

MuhammedAli · March 23, 2014

.....

Most of the material which you have brought up has been discussed in the following dicussion with a brother. Just visit the thread, and if you have any specific text, hadith, verse which you think is strong proof against Hadhir Nadhir please refer it to me via private message. Note I will not be dealing with copy paste jobs. I know exactly where you copied the English material from and trust me its not very impressive. For sake of your hereafter stop copy pasting material and give the brain a chance to understand the matters your self.

http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/20344-discussion-hadhir-nadhir/

Most of the material which you have copy pasted has been already been discussed in the link.

Haq3909 · March 23, 2014

Most of the material which you have brought up has been discussed in the following dicussion with a brother. Just visit the thread, and if you have any specific text, hadith, verse which you think is strong proof against Hadhir Nadhir please refer it to me via private message. Note I will not be dealing with copy paste jobs. I know exactly where you copied the English material from and trust me its not very impressive. For sake of your hereafter stop copy pasting material and give the brain a chance to understand the matters your self.

http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/20344-discussion-hadhir-nadhir/

Most of the material which you have copy pasted has been already been discussed in the link.

Assalam u Alaikum,

No matter from where I took the material , the aqeeda is same for me and them.Please check the "Book of Funerals" hadith in my link.It is a strong proof against Hazir o Nazir. Moreover our Holy Prophet Sallallaho Alayhi Wasallam has himself explained the verse 143 of Surah Baqara hence presenting another Tafseer , that goes totally against it is unacceptable.Moreover I have understood the matter fully and you seem to be confusing the concept of "Ilm Ghayb" , "Hazir O nazir" and " Miracles".For e.g. you quoted the following Hadith in the above link:-

"Make your rows straight for I can see you behind my back"- Mishkaat, Baabu Taswiyatis-saff

However what you didn't understand is that this does NOT mean that he always sees what's behind in the state of Prayer.

Moreover all the Hadith which I have posted are against the concept of Hazir O Nazir i.e. Holy Prophet Sallallaho Alayhi Wa Sallam was unaware of some of the actions of his Ummah even uptil the day of judgement.If you disagree then please refute the above Hadith in short. Wasallam.

shahzad6058811 · March 23, 2014

bhaee 3909 mujhey dar lagta hay kaheen aap discussion kartay kartay ko e ghustakakhi na kar baithain. is liee behtar hay aap rana khalil sb ke bataee hu e book parh lain.

aap kisi ke books main say kuch kaant chaant kar load kar rahay hain. ya ko e doosra aap ko kuch articles day raha hay. ghustakhi karnay say eemaan jaanay ka khatra hota hay is liee ay pehlay books parh lain.

MuhammedAli · March 23, 2014

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave interpretation of the verse but did he negate the hearing and seeing type of witnessing? Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stated people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people. How does that mean Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not hearing seeing type of witness? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go against the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave? Comming to the point in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked the companions who recited the phrase while he was leading the prayers. Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asked Musa (alayhis salaam) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. Does that mean Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) didn't know what Musa (alayhis salaam) had in his hand and by asking Musa (alayhis salaam) Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) learnt that it was a staff. Or should we assume that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) knows everything else but Allah didn't knew Musa (alayhis salaam) was carrying a staff? The hadith of Jibraeel (alayhis salaam), when he came in the form of human and enquired about, Emaan, Ihsan, etc. When Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) left then Prophet told the companions that this was Jibraeel and he came to teach you deen. Point is some time question is not asked to gain knowledge but question is asked for other purposes. In case of Musa (alayhis salaam) it was to make Musa (alayhis salaam) realize what he was carrying. Then he was asked to throw it upon the floor and the staff turned to a snake and left the area. In case of Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) he questioned Prophet (sallallahu aalyhi was'sallam) so the companions can learn about important aspects of deen. In case of Prophet's (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) the question was asked so he steps up and companions recognize him and to tell him the good news how angels responded to his praiseworthy innovation. Imagine this, you live in a village and you perform prayers five times a day. In small village areas people know each other and recognize each other. It would be impossible for Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) not to know and recognize the person and his voice because they live in same city and the companions performed prayers behind Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) I see at the back has i see in the front and your outward sincerity and your inner-sincerity are not conealed from me. This is state of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) all the time and we interpret evidence contrary to it in light of other examples. In this case we interpreted the questioning of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in light of questioning of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and Jibraeel (alayhis salaam).

Let me explain the methodology involved in interpreting, we believe that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) knows all ghayb and all that is apparent and this is fundamental belief. Therefore any evidence which indicates that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) did not know something we interpret it to conform to fundamental teaching of aqeedah so it accords the fundamental aqeedah and not refutes it. Similarly the fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet knowledge is that he sees at the back as he sees at the front and he knows sinerity in the hearts of believers. Now any hadith which contradicts this fundamental aqeedah we interpret it to conform to teaching of Islam. Your methodology is shaytaani methodology because you are attemtping to undermine a fundamental aspect of aqeedah with indirect evidence. Why don't you undermine Allah knowing everything by point of Musa (alayhis salaam) carrying staff in his hand? You will not undermine basic aqeedah of Allah knowing evryhting with Musa (alayhis salaam) example but you are willing to and wanting to undermine the basic/fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) by using his question as example? Foolish people like you who do not know the asool of religion engage in such foolishness. We the Muslims understand that if a verse/hadith goes against fundamental aqeedah we interpret the verse/hadith to conform to fundamental aqeedah. We the Muslims do not refute the fundamental aqeedah as a result of verse/hadith.

Edited March 24, 2014 by MuhammedAli

MuhammedAli · March 23, 2014

bhaee 3909 mujhey dar lagta hay kaheen aap discussion kartay kartay ko e ghustakakhi na kar baithain. is liee behtar hay aap rana khalil sb ke bataee hu e book parh lain.

aap kisi ke books main say kuch kaant chaant kar load kar rahay hain. ya ko e doosra aap ko kuch articles day raha hay. ghustakhi karnay say eemaan jaanay ka khatra hota hay is liee ay pehlay books parh lain.

In bicharoon ka imaan heh hee kab kay jahay ga. Joh RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) ko Shahid manay magar dekhnay sunnay wala Shahid nah manay woh essa hee Kafir heh jesay Qadiyani Kafir hen. Qadiyani RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) ko Khatam un Nabiyeen toh mantay hen magar us kay mafoom yehni aakhiri Nabi aur Nabi ko khatam kernay wala nahin mantay. Balkay unoon nay Khatam Un Nabiyeen ko aur mafoom deh mara heh jistera Wahhabi aur Deobandi Shahid kay zahiri mafoom ko chor ker aur mafoom bata aur maan rahay hen. In hazraat ka kuffaar meh shamil hona bila shak o shuba heh bas Maulvi Hazrat in kee takfir is leyeh nahin kertay kay in bicharoon ko ilm nahin hota joh hawa in meh bari jaati heh us'see kism kee awazen nikhaltay mar jatay hen. Hazir Nazir per ikhtilaf aur baat heh aur is ko na man-nay say banda sirf Ahle Sunnat say Kharij hota heh magar RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) ko Shahid maan ker un meh Shahidoon wali sifaat ka inqar kerna sar'ri kufr heh. In meh say aksar hazraat Kufr kay murtaqib ho jatay hen keun kay yeh Shahidoon wali sifaat kay beghair behjay janay ka aqeeda rakhtay hen. In meh bot kam logh balkay nah honay kay barabar esay log hen joh Shahid mantay hen aur Shahid wali sifaat be mantay hen magar Hazir Nazir per ittifaq nahin kertay. Essay logoon meh Anwar Shah Kashmiri thah magar yeh be Kufr aur Kafiroon ka difa kerta mara lehaza Islam is ko be naseeb nahin huwa.

MuhammedAli · March 24, 2014

Moreover all the Hadith which I have posted are against the concept of Hazir O Nazir i.e. Holy Prophet Sallallaho Alayhi Wa Sallam was unaware of some of the actions of his Ummah even uptil the day of judgement.If you disagree then please refute the above Hadith in short. Wasallam.

I did address the hadith would you please come back to the topic and reply to me.

Edited March 24, 2014 by MuhammedAli

Haq3909 · March 25, 2014

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave interpretation of the verse but did he negate the hearing and seeing type of witnessing? Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stated people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people. How does that mean Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not hearing seeing type of witness? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go against the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave?

Did the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) approve of the hearing and seeing type of witnessing if not negate it? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go in favour of the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave? I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?Moreover the other hadith which i have quoted substantiates my proof of using the word, "Shahid" to mean Witness based on the previous knowledge that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received through revelation and not "Actual" witnessing in the sense that you refer to. Please read the following hadith once again.

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 533 : Narrated by Ibn 'Abbas

The Prophet stood up among us and addressed (saying) "You will be gathered, barefooted, naked, and uncircumcised (as Allah says): 'As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it..' (21.104) And the first human being to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection will be (the Prophet) Abraham Al-Khalil. Then will be brought some men of my followers who will be taken towards the left (i.e., to the Fire), and I will say: 'O Lord! My companions whereupon Allah will say:
you do not know
what they did after you left them. I will then say as the pious slave, Jesus said, And I was witness over them while I dwelt amongst them...(up to) ...the All-Wise.' (5.117-118). The narrator added: Then it will be said that those people (relegated from Islam, that is) kept on turning on their heels (deserted Islam).

Moreover can you Quote me any major Tafseers which take the meaning of "Shahid" used in the above verses in the Hazir o Nazir sense.From most of the Tafseers which i have come across , all take the

meaning

of Shahid in the sense which i have stated.You need to produce strong proof to show that,

Prophet (

sallallahu alayhi was'sallam

) stating that people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people

is ACTUALLY the hearing seeing type of witness and NOT the witness based on Previous Knowledge and the news that

He (

sallallahu alayhi was'sallam

) had received from the Holy Quran(i.e. the News that Allah Ta'ala has already foretold that the Prophets Alayhi Salam had indeed convyed the messages.)

Comming to the point in which Prophet (
sallallahu alayhi was'sallam
) asked the companions who recited the phrase while he was leading the prayers. Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (
subhanahu wa ta'ala
) asked Musa (
alayhis salaam
) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. Does that mean Allah (
subhanahu wa ta'ala
) didn't know what Musa (
alayhis salaam
) had in his hand and by asking Musa (
alayhis salaam
) Allah (
subhanahu wa ta'ala
) learnt that it was a staff. Or should we assume that Allah (
subhanahu wa ta'ala
) knows everything else but Allah didn't knew Musa (
alayhis salaam
) was carrying a staff? The hadith of Jibraeel (
alayhis salaam
), when he came in the form of human and enquired about, Emaan, Ihsan, etc. When Jibraeel (
alayhis salaam
) left then Prophet told the companions that this was Jibraeel and he came to teach you deen. Point is some time question is not asked to gain knowledge but question is asked for other purposes. In case of Musa (
alayhis salaam
) it was to make Musa (
alayhis salaam
) realize what he was carrying. Then he was asked to throw it upon the floor and the staff turned to a snake and left the area. In case of Jibraeel (
alayhis salaam
) he questioned Prophet (
sallallahu aalyhi was'sallam
) so the companions can learn about important aspects of deen. In case of Prophet's (
sallallahu alayhi was'sallam
) the question was asked so he steps up and companions recognize him and to tell him the good news how angels responded to his praiseworthy innovation. Imagine this, you live in a village and you perform prayers five times a day. In small village areas people know each other and recognize each other. It would be impossible for Prophet (
sallallahu alayhi was'sallam
) not to know and recognize the person and his voice because they live in same city and the companions performed prayers behind Prophet (
sallallahu alayhi was'sallam
).

I remember the same type of anaology was first put up by Mufti Ahmed Yar Khan Naeemi in His Ja Alhaq and similarly by Molvi Mohammad Umar Acharvi Sahab in his Miqiyas E Hanafiyat a long time ago and you seem to follow in their footsteps.However, what you and they don't realise is that anaology cannot be used in matters of aqeedah.Maklook ko Khaliq bay bilkul bhi Qiyas nahi kiya jasakta.It is here where Shirk starts to pour in.Remember that matters related to aqeedah cannot be treated using anaology , similitudes or parables.Textual Proof and Clear evidence is a must.Now coming back to the point which you raised : Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asked Musa (alayhis salaam) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. First of all every Intellectual and Just Muslim has no doubt regarding Allah Ta'ala that He is always looking at everything and He is the All-Knower of Everything .[He knows what is in the heavens and on earth, and He knows what you conceal and what you reveal. And Allah Ta'ala is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).(Surah Al-Taghabun, 64: 4)]. Hence, when Allah Ta'ala Asks/Inquires about something , then it is definitely based on Hikmah(Wisdom) as opposed to the Prophets Alayhim Sallato Wasallam and Auliya Karam(Rehma Ulla) , regarding whome our aqeeda is that they are NOT ALIM UL GHAYB and hence they do not know in advance. However, when it is established through incisive proof that the answer to a Question that they inquired/asked about was already known to them in advance , then ONLY that particular question will be based on Hikmah and not generally all questions.Know I request to you to show me a Saheeh and Explicit Hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked a question related to a Non-Shariah matter and he already knew the answer to it as opposed to Allah Ta'ala who already knows everything in advance.However need not to but I will still pose a hadith from which it is clearly proven that Allah Ta'ala alreadys knows in advance about something which He asks about.

Know can you show me any Saheeh and Explicit hadeeth in which the words , " وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ(he knows best)" were used for the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) when he asked a question? On the contrary you will find many hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked questions about matters that were unknown to him previously.

2.)

Now lets look at the following Hadeeth.

This hadith clearly shows that after the telling of the Sahaba Radiallahu Anhum , the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) recognized her and the proof is " Whom Messenger of Allah knew (فَعَرَفَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم).Now can you show me any proof where Allah Ta'ala asked a question regarding something and upon receiving an answer , Allah Ta'ala knew( فَعَرَفَهَا اللَّهِ تَعَالَى) or recognized(MazAllah)?Any Quranic verse or explicit hadeeth?

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) I see at the back has i see in the front and your outward sincerity and your inner-sincerity are not conealed from me. This is state of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) all the time and we interpret evidence contrary to it in light of other examples. In this case we interpreted the questioning of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in light of questioning of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and Jibraeel (alayhis salaam).

Can you provide proof for your claim that this State is all the time?On the contrary we find the following hadith.

Narrated Um Salama: The Prophet heard the voices of some people quarreling near his gate, so he went to them and said, "I am only a human being and litigants with cases of disputes come to me, and maybe one of them presents his case eloquently in a more convincing and impressive way than the other, and I give my verdict in his favor thinking he is truthful. So if I give a Muslim's right to another (by mistake), then that (property) is a piece of Fire, which is up to him to take it or leave it." [sahih Bukhari Book #89, Hadith#295]

Let me explain the methodology involved in interpreting, we believe that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) knows all ghayb and all that is apparent and this is fundamental belief. Therefore any evidence which indicates that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) did not know something we interpret it to conform to fundamental teaching of aqeedah so it accords the fundamental aqeedah and not refutes it. Similarly the fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet knowledge is that he sees at the back as he sees at the front and he knows sinerity in the hearts of believers. Now any hadith which contradicts this fundamental aqeedah we interpret it to conform to teaching of Islam. Your methodology is shaytaani methodology because you are attemtping to undermine a fundamental aspect of aqeedah with indirect evidence. Why don't you undermine Allah knowing everything by point of Musa (alayhis salaam) carrying staff in his hand? You will not undermine basic aqeedah of Allah knowing evryhting with Musa (alayhis salaam) example but you are willing to and wanting to undermine the basic/fundamental aqeedah regarding Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) by using his question as example? Foolish people like you who do not know the asool of religion engage in such foolishness. We the Muslims understand that if a verse/hadith goes against fundamental aqeedah we interpret the verse/hadith to conform to fundamental aqeedah. We the Muslims do not refute the fundamental aqeedah as a result of verse/hadith.

Can you please tell me about this fundamental aqeeda which i have highlighted in red?Can you please show me this aqeedah in the books of Aqaid? On the contrary I have quoted the above hadith.

MuhammedAli · March 25, 2014

I am not going to respond to poorly formatted none sense. Atleast format it properly make distinction between what i wrote and what you are writting.

MuhammedAli · March 25, 2014

Please Do Not Respond To My Posts Until I Confirm That My Response Is Fully Complete. I Want To Make Sure We Have A Detailed And Comprehensive Dicussion On The Subject Where Your Material Is Adressed In Detail.

Did the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) approve of the hearing and seeing type of witnessing if not negate it? How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go in favour of the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave? I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself? Moreover the other hadith which i have quoted substantiates my proof of using the word, "Shahid" to mean Witness based on the previous knowledge that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received through revelation and not "Actual" witnessing in the sense that you refer to. Please read the following hadith once again.

Volume 8, Book 76, Number 533 : Narrated by Ibn 'Abbas

Moreover can you Quote me any major Tafseers which take the meaning of "Shahid" used in the above verses in the Hazir o Nazir sense.From most of the Tafseers which i have come across , all take the meaning of Shahid in the sense which i have stated.You need to produce strong proof to show that, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stating that people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people is ACTUALLY the hearing seeing type of witness and NOT the witness based on Previous Knowledge and the news that He (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received from the Holy Quran(i.e. the News that Allah Ta'ala has already foretold that the Prophets Alayhi Salam had indeed convyed the messages.)The Prophet stood up among us and addressed (saying) "You will be gathered, barefooted, naked, and uncircumcised (as Allah says): 'As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it..' (21.104) And the first human being to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection will be (the Prophet) Abraham Al-Khalil. Then will be brought some men of my followers who will be taken towards the left (i.e., to the Fire), and I will say: 'O Lord! My companions whereupon Allah will say: you do not know what they did after you left them. I will then say as the pious slave, Jesus said, And I was witness over them while I dwelt amongst them...(up to) ...the All-Wise.' (5.117-118). The narrator added: Then it will be said that those people (relegated from Islam, that is) kept on turning on their heels (deserted Islam).

You questioned: "Did the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) approve of the hearing and seeing type of witnessing if not negate it?" No Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) did not explicitly state that he will be hearing seeing type of witness in that Tafsir. And why are you even asking me this question any way? Did I claim that this Tafsir of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) refutes those who say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hazir Nazir? You employed the Tafsir issue: "Moreover our Holy Prophet Sallallaho Alayhi Wasallam has himself explained the verse 143 of Surah Baqara hence presenting another Tafseer , that goes totally against it is unacceptable." to argue that a Tafsir of verse which states Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir/hearing seeing type of witness is unacceptable. It can only be unacceptable to a Muslim when the Tafsir we the Muslims present contradicts what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) interpreted. When i questioned: "Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave interpretation of the verse but did he negate the hearing and seeing type of witnessing?" Purpose was that you will realize that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has not negated the hearing seeing type of witnessing. Which you know that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has not negated this. So how can you reject the Tafsir of Muslims when it does not contradict what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has stated. How can a Tafsir of Quran which is supported by Quran be unacceptable to you when it is not in contradicting what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stated? You don't need to question me if Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) proved hearing seeing type of witness from this tafsir because I didnt present it has evidence to prove that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is seeing hearing type of witness. I questioned you to establish the reality of the meaning of verse, to prove to you that you have rejected Prophet being Hadhir Nadhir based on evidence which does not contradict or refute Hadhir Nadhir. Tafsir of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) would only refute Hadhir Nadhir if he stated he is not hearing seeing type of witness. Nature of Quran is Jawami Al Kalim meaning it is written short but has widest meanings: "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim, and I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand." Muhammad said, Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet." [Ref: Bukhari, B87, H141] Interpreting verses of Quran in light of other verses is not going against the interpretation of Quran. But interpreting verses of Quran in light of Quran is according to Jawami al Kalim nature of Quran. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) only gave one interpretation from Quran from the wide meanings he explained one. We cannot limit restrict to one meaning which Prophet gave. The Rawafiz - Shia they take the ahadith of cloak in whch Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) covered Hadhrat Ali, Fatimah, Hassan, Hussain (Allah be pleased with all of them) and recited the verse of tatheer. They say on basis of this that these people were the intended members of Ahli bayt and not wives of RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). To prove to them that wives of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) are also Ahli Bayt what do you and what do we the Muslims do? We go back to Quran and not restrict our selves to hadith only. We quote the entire verse 33:33 and say wives are also Ahli Bayt. Just to refute the creed of Muslims you have adopted the methodology of Rawafiz. That you want to stick to hadith only and ignore the book of Allah.

Your question: "How does the understanding that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness go in favour of the Tafsir which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gave?" Who said it goes in favour and who presented it as evidence to prove Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is a hearng seeing type of witness? No one, then why are you questioning me. I questioned you to establish your fault because you was using this Tafsir to refute seeing hearing type of witnessing of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) saying that any tafsir other then the one in hadith is against Prophet's (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) tafsir. My objective was to establish the Tafsir does not refute our aqeedah hence why would you consider anything unacceptable when it does not contradict Prophetic Tafsir. I established that Quran has many meanings a verse can be interpreted to mean many things. If our tafsir contradicts what Prophet said then you have a point but if it doesnt and which it doesnt contradict then how can you say aqeeday of hazir nazir is unacceptable.

You wrote: "I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?" Here pay attention let me establish something for you. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) states in Quran: “One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring you as a witness against these (people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.” [Ref: 16:89] Because Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing witness on the day of judgment, Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) has sent him to earth to be a witness with eyes, and ears, hearing and seeing: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] Or are you going to argue Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a witness without eyes, ears and without the ability to hear and see? O now you can interrogate me how these two verses mean seeing hearing type of witness. Now because he was sent as a WITNESS Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) questions Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) about what the angles are arguing about. And Allah the all knower didnt ask because Allah didnt know, Allah asked for a purpose. Prophet said he doesnt know what they are arguing about. The rest read the hadith: Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) granted all the knowledge in earth and universe to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in an instant and then asked again but this time he knew all: He (i.e. Allah) said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, ..." [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Mukhtasar, Prophet has been sent as a witness to earth and he has been made witness to all the events in an instant.

You wrote: "I mean how can you deduce the meaning of Hazir o Nazir for the word "Shahid" from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam')'s own Tafsir when he did not give such a meaning himself?" To answer you question. Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) has stated: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] First of all lets be logical and not closed and narrow minded. Lets take Shahid in meaning of Witness. A witness must possess atleast two qualities and a kamil will have three essential qualities. A witness must be hazir/present and must be able to see/nazir the events he is witness on. You are witness to the discussion we are having on IslamiMehfil because you are Hazir and because you are Nazir. If you was not Hazir as a creation as a human/Jinn/animal/insect/bird/ etc... that will mean you don't exist. Therefore two most essential qualities for a WITNESS are being HAZIR and NAZIR. In dua of Janaza the word Shahid has been used to mean opposite of ghayb - present. Dua begins, Allahum maghfirli hayyitina wa mayyitina wa shahidina wa ghaybina wa sagheerina wa kabeerina ... which means Allah forigve our alive and dead and present and absent and young and old, those who are males and females. Note here the opposite are mentioned, opposite of dead is alive, opposite of young is old, opposite of male is female, opposite of ghayb (i.e. absent) is present (i.e. Shahid). And note the word Shahid was used for the living who are present in the funeral and ghayb for those who are not. Now tell me when Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) bare witness in defence of the Ambiyah will he not be present and will he not be seeing/hearing? From the Tafsir which he gave isn't it obvious that he has to be present and hearing/seeing/speaking/understanding/knowing on the day of judgment and as result of these he will testify on the day of judgment. You claimed to have study concept of Hazir Nazir and fact is you don't know head or tail of the issue. You don't know with what part of Hazir Nazir you should agree or what you should disagree with. Pay attention to this, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) said he will bare witness on the day of judgment. This means he will be Hazir on the day of judgment and seeing, hearing, talking, speaking, answering, understanding, and defending the Prophets. Every creation which is Shahid must also be HAZIR in the creation in some form. Metaphorically speaking you are barking up the wrong tree. The issue of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in aakhirah being Hazir is not even contented by the foolish I think you are pretty reasonablly educated so why would you contend this beats me. I am ex-Deobandi my advice to you is first learn the real issue of IKHTILAF and then come to argue over it.

You wrote: "Moreover the other hadith which i have quoted substantiates my proof of using the word, "Shahid" to mean Witness based on the previous knowledge that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received through revelation and not "Actual" witnessing in the sense that you refer to. Please read the following hadith once again." It doesnt really matter if you take the word to mean Shahid or Hazir or Hazir/Nazir. The point is it can be easily established and no reasonable or rational or educated can contend with it. Shahid = Witness and witness has to be HAZIR/NAZIR. You don't even know this basic aspect and you earlier claimed that you have studied the subject. Witnessing is dependant upon two factors either you hear or you see then you can bear witness. Here the verse attests to witnessing after seeing: "He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me - from my (true) self. "And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):- "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front, then is her tale true, and he is a liar!" [Ref: 12:26] And seeing of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is stated: And say: "Do deeds! Allah will see your deeds, and (so will) his Messenger and the believers. And you will be brought back to the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen. Then He will inform you of what you used to do." [Ref: 9:105] There are two possible things which you may have alluded to one, angels saying Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam): "Don't you know what they did after you!" and this issue has thoroughly answered and explained in this dicussion: http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/19739-hadhir-nadhir-objection/ The other is the issue of Prophet Isa alayhis salaam. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) saying that he will say like Prophet Isa (alayhis slaam) will say. And I will explain this issue in detail because this has not been dicussed. Question is why did Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) will say what is recorded in Hadith. When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) will ask the Prophets about what response they recieved from their Ummats the Prophets will say they have no knowledge: "[be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the messengers and say, "What was the response you received?" They will say, "We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen" [Ref: 5:109] Question is why would the Prophets will when that they have no knowledge when they know what happened. All the Prophets will know exactly how their nations replied to them but on the day of judgment they will say THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE. Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) when he comes back the second time he will know exactly what his Ummah did after him. He will read the Quran and he will learn that people have made him into a god and a son of god. Yet on the day of judgment all the Prophets will say we have no knowledg. Will they be lieing to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala)? They will deny their own knowledge due to humility. They know exactly what happened but the one asking is Allah the Rabb of Alameen, the Knower of Ghayb and the Shahada, therefore they in humility and in submission and in respect and honor of Allah will say o Allah we have no knowledge you o Allah know everything you are the knower of Ghayb. It is established that Prophets were not lieing but they were being humble and respectful to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) by denying their own knowledge. We will come back to this topic of saying of Isa (alayhis salaam) and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam).

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is reported to have said that deeds of believers are presented to him: My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and we talk to you, and my demise is also a great good for you (because) your deeds will be presented to me. If they are good, I will praise Allah, and if they are bad, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you. [Ref:Narrated by Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalani, through Harith in his al-Matalib-ul-‘aliyah, 4: 22-3 # 3853] Bakr bin ‘Abdullah (رضي الله عنه) also reported that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and you are responded. And when I will die my demise will be a great good for you. Your deeds will be presented to me, if I see goodness, I will praise Allah, and if I see wrongs, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you." [Ref: Ibn Sa‘d, at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2: 194); ‘Ali bin Abu Bakr Haythami related in Majma‘-uz-zawa’id (9:24)] In addition to this the already quoted ahadith establish Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was shown everything: "Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Now when it is established that deeds are presented to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) therefore he would indeed know what has happened after him. And he also was given the power to see everything as the ahadit of Tirmadhi indicate. Also Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) seeing the deeds of people is proven from these two verses "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] These two verses prove that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a witness to see/hear about the deeds which he will bear witness about. With all this evidence now we go back to hadith in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will say like Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam): "Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, "You will be gathered (on the Day of Judgment), bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." He then recited:--'As We began the first creation, We, shall repeat it: A Promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.' (21:104) He added, "The first to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham, and some of my companions will be taken towards the left side (i.e. to the (Hell) Fire), and I will say: 'My companions! My companions!' It will be said: 'They renegade from Islam after you left them.' Then I will say as the Pious slave of Allah (i.e. Jesus) said. 'And I was a witness Over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up You were the Watcher over them, And You are a witness to all things. If You punish them. They are Your slaves And if You forgive them, Verily you, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (5.120-121) [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H568] "Narrted Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "You will be resurrected (and assembled) bare-footed, naked and uncircumcised." The Prophet then recited the Divine Verse:-- "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it: A promise We have undertaken. Truly we shall do it." (21.104) He added, "The first to be dressed will be Abraham. Then some of my companions will take to the right and to the left. I will say: 'My companions! 'It will be said, 'They had been renegades since you left them.' I will then say what the Pious Slave Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them; when You did take me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things. If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if you forgive them, You, only You are the All-Mighty the All-Wise.' " (5.117-118) Narrated Quaggas, "Those were the apostates who renegade from Islam during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr who fought them." [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H656] It is clearly establish that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness upon the actions and deeds of people but the two ahadith prove contrary to the established fact. So is Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) lieing about being shown everything and deeds being presented to him and did Allah die about sendin Prophet has a witness? Answer is emphatic no, all of these facts are true and fundamental part of aqeedah of Muslims and we the Muslims make no Taweel of fundamental aqeedah based on circumstantial or implicit evidence. Just as we the Muslims will not accept Allah being Trinity on basis of plurals such as We, Us, Our which are found in Quran and used by Allah for himself. Point is here Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be using the words of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) while adopting humility and submissiveness of Hadhrat Isa (alayhis salaam). Here he will be immitating the humility and humility and the words will not indicate his reality. If one argues the word will indicate the reality of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) then my argument is was Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) raised like Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam)? Isa (alayhis salaam) was taken up this is why he will say: "... when you did take me up you were the witness ..." but what about Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam)? Was he taken up and will he return like Isa (alayhis salaam)? Point here is that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will be emulating a Sunnah of Nabi Isa (alayhis salaam) like we the Muslims emulate the Sunnah of Ibrahim (alayhis salaam). Like we emulate the Sunnah of Hajirah (alayhis salaam) the mother of Ishmaeel (alayhis salaam) by running on the two mountains doing Sai on the Hajj. Like we emulate her Sunnah and stone the Jamras during Hajj. These actions in reality are of other people and they have no real connection with us nor there is actual need to stone or do these things apart from symbolical and worship perspective in our Sharia. We just emulate the actions because we are instructed to. Similarly Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will emulate the SUNNAH OF PROPHET ISA (ALAYHIS SALAAM) FOR THE PURPOSE OF SHOWING HUMILITY TO ALLAH (SUBHANAHU WA TA'ALA) while in reality the words will have no connection with his own actual state. You may say, ARE YOU SAYING PROPHET WILL TELL A LIE? I say didn't the Quran say when Allah asked the Prophets how the Ummats recieved them and they will all say we have no knowledge. Will they then be lieing? Nope, humility and I say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) show humility and respect by adopting the Sunnah of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam).

[ To Be Continued ...]

Edited March 25, 2014 by MuhammedAli

MuhammedAli · March 25, 2014

You wrote:

Moreover can you Quote me any major Tafseers which take the meaning of "Shahid" used in the above verses in the Hazir o Nazir sense.From most of the Tafseers which i have come across , all take the meaning of Shahid in the sense which i have stated.You need to produce strong proof to show that, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) stating that people will bear witness in defence of Prophets and he will bare witness upon the people is ACTUALLY the hearing seeing type of witness and NOT the witness based on Previous Knowledge and the news that He (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) had received from the Holy Quran(i.e. the News that Allah Ta'ala has already foretold that the Prophets Alayhi Salam had indeed convyed the messages.)

I don't think anyone with an ounce of brain will contest that Shahid means is one who is Hazir as well as Nazir. This is so basic and it was so undisputed that I doubt anyone ever even concieved challenging this prior to emergence of Wahhabism in India and Deobandism. In Taskeen al Khawatir Fi Masla Hadhir wa Nazir, the refferences are presented: http://www.mediafire.com/download/it10o181lsylm8k/taskeenul+khwater.pdf Is there any stronger proof then these two verses which prove Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a hearing seeing type of witness: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] These two verses talk about Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) being sent as a witness upon the earth as a human. Allah (subhanhu wa ta'ala) states: "Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you as a Messenger to mankind, and Allah is Sufficient as a Witness." [Ref: 4:79] This is also attested in the Hadith of Muslim: “Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon hlmg) said: I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship;I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me.” [Ref: Muslim B4, H1062] Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) being sent as a witness to entire mankind is established and his seeing their deeds and actions is established because he was sent as a witness with eyes, ears, which posesses super natural abilities. He saw at the back as he saw at the front and from him not even the sincerity in the hearts was concealed. Allah showed him everything and he came to know everything instantly, he became witness upon entire mankind because he was sent as a witness. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) being sent as a witness is like I or anyone else goes to a religious convention as a WITNESS. Or I am or anyone else is sent as a WITNESS. If i am sent as a witness to a convention will I not see the events taking place? Will I not hear the events taking place? Me going there as a witness and being a WITNESS means that I see and i ge to hear the events at the convention. You agree? So when Allah the all mighty sent his Prophet as a WITNESS to entire mankind do you think he sent the Rehmatal Lil Alameen AS A BLIND DEAF DUMB? Where is your brain? We Muslims call you to Islam, will you then not accept Islam, when it is so clear and irrefutable?

Where is your proof that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will bare witness based on the news which he has recieved from Quran. There is no proof what so ever in this regard. You have used qiyaas to infer this non-sense. There is only proof that Ummah of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'salam) will bare witness based on what they were told by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam): “... ‘Did this one convey the message to you?’ and they will say, ‘No.’ It will be said to him: ‘Did you convey the message to your people?’ and he will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said to him: ‘Who will bear witness for you?’ He will say: ‘Muhammad and his ummah.’ So Muhammad and his ummah will be called, and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to his people?’ They will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said: ‘How did you know that?’ They will say: ‘Our Prophet came to us and told us that the Messengers had conveyed the message.’ That is the words of Allaah, ‘Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation.’ He said: Just, so that you will be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger will be a witness over you.” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad, Hadith 1164, Sunan Ibn Maajah, Hadith 4284] The underlined proves that Ummah will bare witness on account of being told by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). Where is your proof that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will bare witness on account of reading it in the Quran? You have deduced based on Qiyas that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) will bare witness based on the knowledge he has recieved from Quran. There is not a single hadith or verse of Quran which states this.

You may present the following Hadith to argue that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) ko ilm nahin hoga keun kay un ka farmaan heh: "It states that when this verse was recited then Prophet peace be upon him shivered and said "O Allah I am witness upon the people in which i am (living). How can I be witness of those to whom I have not seen?" [Ref: Tafseer Ibn Abi Haatim 3/956, Tabrani is Mojam alKabeer 19/243, Wahidi in his Tafseer 2/55, Abu Nuyeem in Muarifa tul Sahaba no: 63] Note Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is asking question this does not mean he won't be able to see its just a question to Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala). In answer to this question Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) showed him everything like Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) showed everything to Prophet Ibrahim (alayhis salaam): "Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] So Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) informed him how he will be able to bare witness on those he does not see. Imam Qastallani (rahimullah alayhi ta'ala) records: "It is reported by Hazrat Abdullah bin Umar (radi Allahu anhuma) that Sayyiduna Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Indeed this entire world is in front of me so that I can observe everything in it. I can see everything in this world and everything that will take place till the Day of Qiyamah. I see the entire world as I see the palm of my hand". [Ref: Mawahib-e-Ladunnia] I rest my case on these that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asking Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) about he will bare witness on those he has not yet seen does not mean he was not given the knowledge and shown everything.

[ To Be Continued ...]

MuhammedAli · March 25, 2014

I Will Be Back Tomarrow. Right Now My Fingers Joints Hurting. Do Not Reply Please. I Have So Much More To Write Please Be Paitent. After My Response You Can Have All The Time In The World To Respond To Me And I Wont Interfere. I Want Our Discussion To Conclude On Positive And Be Civil.

MuhammedAli · March 29, 2014

Your wrote: "I remember the same type of anaology was first put up by Mufti Ahmed Yar Khan Naeemi in His Ja Alhaq and similarly by Molvi Mohammad Umar Acharvi Sahab in his Miqiyas E Hanafiyat a long time ago and you seem to follow in their footsteps." Stating that I have followed the footsteps of Ulamah of Ahle Sunnat is no sufficent ground to reject what I have presented. I presume you intended to refute the creed of Muslims by writing the above because Wahhabi's and Deobandi's both are conditioned to refute the Ahle Sunnat by arguing you are only following ancestors. Commonly these verses are employed to argue against following the religion of ancestors: "Then have they not reflected over the Qur'an, or has there come to them that which had not come to their forefathers?" [Ref: 23:68] "And when it is said to them, "follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?" [Ref: 2:170] These verses were revealed regarding the polytheists of Makkah the disbelievers of Makkah and Arabian Peninsula in general. Applying the text of these verses upon Muslims and refuting their belief by association with ancestors is irreligious. Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radiallah ta'ala anhu) has reported stated: “... and the Mulhidun (heretical) after the establishment of firm proof against them:"And the statement of Allah: 'Allah will not mislead a people after He has guided them, until He makes clear to them what to avoid.' [9:115] And Ibn Umar used to consider them (the Khawarij and the Mulhidun) the worst of Allah's creatures and said: "These people took some verses that had been revealed concerning the disbelievers and interpreted them as describing the believers." [Ref: Bukhari, Vol 9, Page 49, Chap 6: Killing The Khawari] Now Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is reported to have said: "Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet said, ‘There will be “dajjals” and liars among my Ummah. They will tell you something new, which neither you nor your forefathers have heard. Be on your guard against them, and do not let them lead you astray.’” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad] This establishes that people will come and invent lies which the Muslims in previous generations have not heard before. And by default this establishes chain of a particular aqeedah, if what i narrate is narrated by previous generation and they narrate by what was narrated by previous generation and each generation narrates what it heard from previous then eventually the sanad of creed will go back to a Sahabi and even back to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). Hence following the ancestors i.e. scholars of past is nothing negative in fact it is a tool with which authenticity of a creed or concept is established. If what I have written is mentioned by the Ulamah of past then praise be to Allah who guided me to Islam and guided me to correct understanding which is testified by those who succeeded me.

You wrote: "However, what you and they don't realise is that anaology cannot be used in matters of aqeedah.Maklook ko Khaliq bay bilkul bhi Qiyas nahi kiya jasakta.It is here where Shirk starts to pour in.Remember that matters related to aqeedah cannot be treated using anaology, similitudes or parables.Textual Proof and Clear evidence is a must." I am absolutely astonished at this statement of yours. Did you even understand what you wrote? Where did I make analogy on matter of aqeedah? What was the analogy in matter of aqeedah? If I had written: "Allah sees and like Allah Prophet sees" then if you wrote i am making analogy with Prophet's (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) seeing and between Allah's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) seeing and then if you said from this shirk pours in then I would understand. Give you benefit of the doubt that you have misunderstood because my lack of writting. But I made no Qiyas and no analogy between Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). I didnt say, Allah knows all therefore Prophet knows all, i didnt say, Prophet is Hazir Nazir because Allah is Hazir and Nazir, i didn't say the way Allah is Hazir Nazir in the same way Prophet is Hazir Nazir. If I said something like this then at least your comment about me drawing analogy and your comment about Shirk pouring would be understood. I stated no such a thing and you have grossly and senslessly wrote which has no connection with what I written. Briefly, i wrote there is fundamental aqeedah which is essential to be Muslim and evidence that goes against it or something which insinuates something againsts that aqeedah we harmonize it so it accords the fundamental aqeedah. Then I wrote fundamental aqeedah in reqards to Prophet is that he saw front back and new sincerity of hearts. Then the evidence which you presented to refute it I harmonized it as per the mentioned rule. There is no analogy between Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) or Prophet (sallallahu alyhi was'sallam) in this. The commonality is of principle, we have a fundamental aqeedah and we explain all evidence against this fundamental evidence in ways which removes the contradiction. Let me illustrate the point with another example, we the Muslims believe Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) is not dead but he was raised and Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) died. These two are our fundamental creeds, do you agree! In this Hadith which you also presented in post three from Sunnah.com. It is written that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) wil say like Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam): "... will take to the right and to the left. I will say: 'My companions! 'It will be said, 'They had been renegades since you left them.' I will then say what the Pious Slave Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them; when You did take me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things. If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if you ..." [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H656] Please take note of underlined Qadiyani's argue on the basis of this Hadith that if Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) is alive and taken up to heaven then here too tawaf-faytani means taking up which means Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was-sallam) did not also die but was raised to heaven. Or they argue if Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) is dead and he used this same word and it will mean that he died then why is Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) thought to be alive. We the Muslims defend the death of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and raising of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam) alive and interpret the hadith in a fashion that it supports both fundamental creeds i.e. death of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and raising alive of Prophet Isa (alayhis salaam). Point was that we defend the fundamental creeds from evidence which does not conform to the fundamental creeds even if the evidence seems to contradict it. I cannot comprehend how you managed to lay the foundation of qiyas between Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and then write this. There was no qiyas being made I merely established and stated the principle of; explaining the evidence in a way that it conforms to fundamental creed, and no sane person would even contest this leave alone lecture me about qiyas and pouring of Shirk. Creed of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) being hearing, seeing type of Witness and his being sent as hearing, seeing type of Witness has been firmly established with clear and explicit Quranic evidences.

You wrote: "Now coming back to the point which you raised: Does every question indicate that one needs to gain knowledge? When Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asked Musa (alayhis salaam) what do you have in your hand and he replied a staff. First of all every Intellectual and Just Muslim has no doubt regarding Allah Ta'ala that He is always looking at everything and He is the All-Knower of Everything .[ He knows what is in the heavens and on earth, and He knows what you conceal and what you reveal. And Allah Ta'ala is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).(Surah Al-Taghabun, 64: 4) ]. Hence, when Allah Ta'ala Asks/Inquires about something, then it is definitely based on Hikmah (Wisdom) as opposed to the Prophets Alayhim Sallato Wasallam and Auliya Karam (Rehma Ulla), regarding whom our aqeeda is that they are NOT ALIM UL GHAYB and hence they do not know in advance. However, when it is established through incisive proof that the answer to a Question that they inquired/asked about was already known to them in advance, then ONLY that particular question will be based on Hikmah and not generally all questions." Concerning bold part, the creed of Deobandi's regarding Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) is that Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) does not not until humans act. Maulvi Hussain Ali the student of Maulvi Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi writes in his Tafsir Balaghatul Hiraan: "And human is independant to perform good deeds or not and Allah does not know before hand what [humans] will do. Instead Allah knows after they act and verse of Quran like ..." The Urdu quotes with scans be seen here: http://www.falaah.co.uk/refutation/wahabi/139-tafsir-bulghatul-hairan Firstly, you are writting something which is not established from your elders. Considering one Deobandi intellectual has emphatically attributed ignorance to Allah until after the event has taken place, how definate are you that when Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) asks its based on Wisdom and not based on ignorance. Now incase you choose to say; 'I don't believe that!' you will then have to atleast issue of edict of Takfir or declare the statement of Maulvi Hussain Ali is Kufr. You have stated that only after clear proof establish that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) then you will state that questioning of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) was based on Hikmah. I would purpose that a righteous believer will only assume that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) doesnt know something when there is clear explicit proof in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) clearly and emphatically declared that he did not know this when he said this or that. It would be unjust to declare that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) didn't know something based on a question because the possibility of knowing and not knowing there. Also absence of clear explicit proof for knowing something is not criteria of not knowing. Imam Bukhari wrote he knew over 600'000 but he chose 100'000 for his Bukhari. Could it not be that narrations were not passed on to us and left like Imam Bukhari left near 500'000 Ahadith. Just take the knowledge of haroof al muqat'at there is no single narrations regarding their meaning in books of Ahadith which we possess. Based on this fact should we assume these are meaningless? Let's be sensible and not make absence of clear, explicit evidence as a evidence of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) not knowing something. The possibility of knowing it but not declaring it on command of Allah is established from the verse of Quran: "Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed, Taught to him by one intense in strength." [Ref: 53:2/5] Belief of Muslims is that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) gained perfect knowledge of Al Lawh Al Mahfooz when the entire Quran was revealed. Then all which was in Al Lawh Al Mahfooz was known by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) and there is no gaurantee of knowing everything or somethings before this. Ahle Sunnat generally interpret all questions of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) in light of Akmaliat e Ilm of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam). This Akmaliat of knowledge is also affirmed by Imam Busairi (rahimullah alayhi ta'ala) who wrote: fa inna min joodi qad dunya wa dar rataha wa min uloomika huwal lawh wal kalami. The burden of proof that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) rests upon who wishes to refute that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) didn't know and thats why he questioned. We the Muslims have established that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) sees behind as he saw the front and from him the sincerity of hearts was not hidden. It was you who brought the Hadith to contradict the fundamental belief of Muslims therefore its upon you to establish that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) did not knew who it was who recited the hamd and it was for this reason he asked.Your responsibility is to quote a hadith in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has stated I am not always seeing at the back as I see at the front and I do not always know the sincerity in the hearts of believers. What you presented was a question and on that you made QIYAS that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) did not know. I only merely criticised your evidence and pointed flaws in your evidence and established Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) has stated that he sees at the back as he sees the front and sincerity of hearts is not concealed from him and if his state had changed he would have declared it as he declared his seeing back/front and sincerity.

You wrote: "Know I request to you to show me a Saheeh and Explicit Hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked a question related to a Non-Shariah matter and he already knew the answer to it as opposed to Allah Ta'ala who already knows everything in advance. However need not to but I will still pose a hadith from which it is clearly proven that Allah Ta'ala alreadys knows in advance about something which He asks about." ... Know can you show me any Saheeh and Explicit hadeeth in which the words , " وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ(he knows best)" were used for the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) when he asked a question? On the contrary you will find many hadeeth in which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) asked questions about matters that were unknown to him previously." What you have asked here is not really important because we the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat do not believe Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) knew everything before the Akmaliat of his knowledge. We believe his knowledge was perfected when the last verse of Quran was revealed to him. Then Prophet (sallallahu alayhi was'sallam) knew everything which is in Lawh Al Mahfooz. To refute our aqeedah you need to quote those Ahadith which are about incidents which happened after the Quran was completed. Please read the following two articles they explain my methodology:

- http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22039-qull-ghayb-knowledge-of-lawh-mahfooz-al-qalam-known-to-rasoolallah/

- http://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22040-use-of-analogy-rationalismto-reffute-ilm-al-ghayb-of-rasoolallah/

I have entrusted brother Saad Qadri with my articles I had to upload them due to emergency requirement.

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.

Edited March 29, 2014 by MuhammedAli

MuhammedAli · March 29, 2014

Response Is Complete You May Proceed To Write Your Response.

shahzad6058811 · March 29, 2014

please ko e bhaee mujhey lafaz hazir nazir ka mafhoom yaanee matlab samjha day. special request to 3909

Haq3909 · March 29, 2014

Response Is Complete You May Proceed To Write Your Response.

Assalam u alaikum.

I will In Sha' Allah reply soon.Busy meanwhile.

Wasallam.

MuhammedAli · March 29, 2014

Salam Shahzad baee, mujjay in say discuss kernay denh. Takay kuch nateeja niklay. Auroon kee dakhal andaazi behas ko aur taweel ker deh gee.

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