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Discussion On Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab's Blanket Takfir Of Muslims.


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Muhammed Ali Razavi
June 22, 2017

Salam alayqum, Hamit Topcu, ISIS are not Sunni. They are Wahhabi.



Abu Muhammad
June 23

ISIS are not Sunni nor are you, man.

How can Salafism support Khuruj when Salafis don’t even permit peaceful protests on oppressive Muslim rulers.
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Muhammed Ali Razavi

June 25


How Can Salafis/Wahhabis be Khariji. Have you actually looked at what Wahhabism aka Salafism has contributed to Muslims and then i will tell you what is KHURUJ and if Wahhabis/Salafis are guilty of it or not.

In 1750 AD Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab and his band of bandits equivlents of modern terrorists were looting robbing Hujjaj that passed through Najd. Then these bandits committed hideous acts of terrorism on Sunni population of Arabia . City after city was ransacked and Sunni men, women, children, old, young, male female combatants civilians all were target of butchering and death. Women were raped and enslaved just like what ISIS did to Iraqis.

In Syria you have ISIS a Wahhabi terrorist group everyone knows what your Wahhabis did. In Somalia al-Shabab Wahhabi/Salafi terrorist group is whole sale butchering Sunni Muslims and raping women and little girls. In Afghanistan your Wahhabis are committing acts of terrorism. In Mali the Boko Haram are Wahhabi terrorist groups … you telling me Wahhabism is not Kharijis.

What are these groups doing of this is not KHURUJ you illiterate jack-. In addition to that Khuruj is not only in sense of fighting … but Khuruj encludes abandoning the Jammah of Muslims. What did Wahhabism do and still does with imputiny? You left the Jammah of Muslims and charged the Jammah of major Shirk, Kufr, Irtad, Biddah, and on this foundation your Shaykh al-Najd in his Kitab at-Tawheed justified killing of Muslims, enslaving of Sunni women and looting of property:

“It is absolutely amazing! And more amazing is tat depite their (people of Biddah) reading this story in the books of Tafsir and Hadith, along with their understandings of its meaning, and knowing about the obstruction that Allah has put between them and their hearts, they believed that the deeds of the people of Nuh (i.e. over praising the dead and memorializing their graves with statues) is the best type of worship. They believed in what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden which is the disbelief (Kufr) THAT PERMITS THE TAKING OF LIFE AND WEALTH …” [Ref: Kitab al-Tawheed, Chapter 19, Page 80, Important IOChapter Number 14]

Not only this is Takfir, this is instruction to kill Muslims. Guess what did Khawarij do, they made Takfir of Muslims because they believed Sahabah committed major Shirk by giving Hukm right of Allah to creation. And they permitted killing, looting, enslaving of Muslim women, they left the Jammah and they rebelled against the state authority and you contiue to rebel against state authority.

You Wahhabis living in WEstern countries, you all are exactly the same as ISIS, Al-Qaidah, you’re all sitting Khariji terrorists, and if a right oppurtunity came you would do exactly to Muslims what Wahhabi groups such as Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, Pakistan, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, all these groups are Wahhabi and terrorists. If opportunity availed you will do do Sunni Mslims what your Wahhabis are doing and have done but you can live under pretext of we are peaceful and tolerant and loving but reality is your Wahabism is brutal barbaric terrorist sect and proof of it is in your books. I AM A FORMER WAHHABI AKA SALAFI AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOUR LITERATURE TEACHES. You just need right incentive to go out and committ terrorist acts or to join a terrorist group. Only reason Wahhabi majority have remained and did not joined ISIS in Syria and Iraq is lack of awareness of Wahhabi teaching lack of practicing true Wahhabism. True Wahhabism is PURE ISIS and its barbarity and brutality and destruction.

Here listened to a Salafi/Wahhabi who was a former grand Imam of Masjid al-Haram and he is a major, major scholar of your Wahhabism, here.

In response to question if ISIS is Wahhabi and in response he says ISIS is pure WAHHABISM AND EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING IS FROM WAHHABI LITERATURE.

In conclusion, Khuruj is millitary, as well as theological, and Wahhabism is guilty of both. Entire Tawheed/Shirk determining methodology of Wahhabism/Salafism is of Khawarij. They way their judged Shirk exactly same way Wahhabis judge Shirk and charge Muslims of committing Shirk. This is the ambilical cord WHICH CONNECTS WAHHABISM WITH KHARIJISM.
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Abu Muhammad
June 25

Alright, let’s calm down & put emotions aside.

Let us use reference from books to come to our conclusion on one issue at a time since we don’t know each other so how could we trust each other, right?

So let me start.

My Claim

Our Sh. Muhammad b. ‘Abdil-Wahhab [رحمه اللّٰه] has not used Takfir execissvely.

My Evidence

Past Scholar, Shaykhul-Islām Muhammad b. 'Abdil-Wahhāb [رحمه اللّٰه] said:

“And if we do not make takfīr (declaring one an apostate) on the one who worships the idol that is on the grave of 'Abdul-Qādir, and the idol that is on the grave of Ahmad Al-Badawi and their likes, due to their ignorance, and not having someone to explain them, Then how can we make takfīr on those who do not set up partners with Allah.”

Source: [Mu'lafāt Ash-Shaykh Al-Imām: Muhammad b. 'Abdil-Wahhāb, Section III, Fatwas & Issues Pg 11]

He [رحمه اللّٰه] also said:

"As for what the enemies say about me: I make takfīr by using assumption and according to loyalty, or I make takfīr on the ignorant who the evidence wasn't established upon, then this is a great slander "

Source: [Same Source, Section V, Personal Letters P. 25]

He [رحمه اللّٰه] said:

“Indeed we make takfīr upon the one who sets up partners with Allah in his worship, after we show him the evidence of the invalidity of shirk.”

Source: [The Previous Source (p. 60).]

He [رحمه اللّٰه] said:

“As for takfīr, then I make takfīr on the one who knew the religion of the Prophet, then after what he knew, he insulted it, forbade people from it, waged war on who practiced it, So this is who I make takfīr upon and most of The Ummah - praise be to Allah - aren't like that.”

Source: [The Previous Source (p. 38).]

(Translated by The THIQA Page Administration)
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Muhammed Ali Razavi
June 26

About My Self:

You said we don’t know each other so I am about to introduce myself to you. My name is Muhammed Ali and I am from England, Derbyshire. I was likely the very first Hanafi Salafi on internet. Long before the term Halafi came to be used for my type of Salafis. I am a former, WAHHABI, and there is my story how and why I left Wahhabis, here. If you want to read my content you’re welcome to read 275 articles, here, all are dedicated to refuting Wahhabism or its offshoot but I recommend you read the reasons why I left. All important articles evidences are linked in it. Now I have introduced myself to you.

Word Of Advice:

Just to let you know IN-ADVANCE this discussion will eventually, sooner, later will feature on the forum of which I have linked above. Later is more likely because at the moment I am busy formatting a discussion of Istighathah, 137 A4 pages, long, later likely. With improved formatting and content. Rest assured all your posts will remain as they come nothing will change but I will rework my own content. So I do advise you to make a dignified and respectable show because it is better to be a good looser then a bad looser.

Setting Some Record Straight:

I want to begin with something simple and easy for naive mind of yours. First of all I did not say Shaykh al-Najd made direct Takfir of majority or whole of Jammah of Muslims. I said he charged the Muslims of Kufr, Shirk. And you cannot charge someone of Kufr/Shirk without direct Takfir. Example Wahhabism is group of Kufr in East foretold in Hadith:

“Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The head (or summit) of disbelief lies towards the east and the pride and arrogance lie in people who possess horses and camels who are also coarse - the bedouins. Tranquillity lies in people who possess sheep." [Ref: Adab al-Mufrad, here.]

I quoted this Hadith from Adab al-Mufrad but same Hadith is found in Bukhari and Muslim, here. I believe Wahhabism is indeed the group of Kufr and Tafseel of it is not important for the point I am intending to make. Your Wahhabism and you are upon Kufr but I am not saying you’re Kafir. Yet it is clear to you if I make Hujjah and you do not repent I will issue Hukm of Kufr against you i.e. declare you’re Kafir. And I will answer if direct Takfir is required or not.

Your Objective Shaykh al-Najd Did Not Make Takfir:

So your pre-prepared onslaught to justify SHAYKH AL-NAJD DID NOT MAKE TAKFIR OF UMMAH/MUSLIMS IS ABOUT TO FAIL.

Takfir, Or No Takfir, Does It Matter, Or No Matter:

Direct Takfir, you’re Kafir, you’re outside the fold of Islam, does it matter, or no matter? Takfir is a legal formality and it requires Hujjah but absence of Takfir does not change reality of a Kafir. Zayd believes there is no ressurection after death, no judgment day or its accountability or paradise or hell, he is guilty of major Kufr. Mufti makes no Takfir but says denial of all these if Kufr … does not mean Zayd is not Kafir reality is ZAYD IS A KAFIR if a Mufti issues Takfir, or not, has no bearing on Zayd being Kafir. Because Kafir’s Kufr doesn’t need Hukm to be Kufr, nor Zayd needs to be declared Kafir to be Kafir. Kufr of Zayd and Zayd being Kafir are a reality which needs no attestation from a Mufti. Takfir of a Mufti is a legal formality. If Zayd died upon his beliefs as mentioned he died a Kafir irrespective of lack of formal direct Takfir from Mufti.

IN PRINCIPLE EVERY PERSON GUILTY OF MAJOR KUFR/SHIRK IS KAFIR/MUSHRIK UNTIL REPENTANCE.

Why does this matter? And what does it got to do with what we are about to discuss? This matters because being Kafir/Mushrik doesn’t require formal direct Takfir. It is related to topic because Shaykh al-Najd has not explicitly made direct, formal Takfir of entire Ummah but from his teachings it can be deduced all of Ummah was Kafir/Mushrik according to his religion of Wahhabism.

Your Objective Shaykh al-Najd Did Not Make Takfir Is A Fail:

So your pre-prepared copy paste job to prove Shaykh al-Najd did not actually directly formally made Takfir of entire Ummah is about to fail on you because EVEN IF HE DID NOT MAKE TAKFIR … my objective still will be established that according to teaching/belief of Shaykh al-Najd vast majority/entirity of Ummah [with exception to his followers] were guilty of major Kufr/Shirk … IN REALITY AND IN ACTUALITY … but he did not make formal Takfir in such explict words.

My Claim About Shaykh al-Najd And His Teachings:

Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab believed Muslims of Arabia as whole were upon major Shirk. And killing them is permissible, looting property is permissible, enslaving of wives of such people is allowed. And he made Takfir excessively and unjustly.

Evidence Shaykh Najd Deemed Muslims As Kafir/Mushrik:
 
 
"And I inform you about myself - I swear by Allah whom there is none worthy to worship except Him - I have sought knowledge and those who knew me believed that I had knowledge while I did not know the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah at that time and did not know the religion of Islam before this grace that Allah favoured. As well as my teachers no one among them knew that. And if someone from the scholars of al-'Aridh claims that he knew the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah or knew the meaning of Islam before this time, or claims on behalf of his teachers that someone from them knew that, then he has lied and said falsehood and deceived the people and praised himself with something he does not possess." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 10, Page 51, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, here.]

Comment: Al-Aridh is regions around Saudi province of Najd. Al-Aridh is inclusive of all provinces of Arabia including Hijaz. In other words all the Muslims of Arabia were Kafir/Mushrik. And the only Muslim that existed in the land of Arabia during his time was he himself alone and no one else other then those who accepted his Wahhabism.

WAHHABI: But, but, but, he didn’t make Takfir, you lying Sufi Moshrek filth.

ANSWER: It makes no difference if he made no Takfir. In formality they were not Kafir/Mushrik but in Haqiqat he establish Kufr/Shirk of them. Just because he formally did not make Takfir they were not Kafir/Mushrik? Are you going to say they were Muslim according to Wahhabism? How can anyone be a Muslim if he does not even know meaning of la ilaha il-Allah? Will someone be Muslim if he does not know linguistic meaning of la ilaha il-Allah and Tafsiri meaning of it? How can someone believe in Tafsir meaning of la ilaha il-Allah when he doesn’t even know it? And how can such a person be Muslim? So you agree they were Kafir/Mushrik despite no formal Takfir?

Shaykh al-Najd said Muslims are polytheists:

“That the polytheists in our era are more severe in their (committing of) shirk than the first polytheists (during the Prophet's time). This was since the first polytheists sed to associate partners with Allah at times of ease and worship Him sincerely during times of hardship. However, the polytheists in our era constantly commit shirk in times of ease as well as in times of hardship. The proof for this is His - the Exalted …” [Ref: Qawaid al-Arba, fourth principle, here.]

Who were these Mushrikeen? Christians, or Hindus, or Muslims of Arabia?  You and I both know he is referring to Muslims of Arabia. You should know this that every Mushrik is Kafir but not every Kafir is Mushrik. And a Mushrik is greater Kafir then a Kafir. In this light see Shaykh al-Najd said Muslims of Arabia which he encountered are worst Mushrikeen then Mushrikeen whom RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) encountered. To say to a Muslim you’re Kafir is bad, to say to him you’re Mushrik (i.e. is to say to him you’re worst Kafir there can be) is very bad, but to say you’re worst Mushrik then Mushriks which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) encountered is very and very bad Takfir. Shaykh al-Najd didn’t just say this about one or two but entire people of Arabia:

“However, the polytheists in our era constantly commit shirk in times of ease as well as in times of hardship.”

Are you still going to delude yourself that he did not declare Muslims as whole were Mushrikeen?

Shaykh al-Najd wrote: "The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir upon the polytheists and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah. So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and loves Islam and its people. This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Quran declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

Shaykh al-Najd said anyone who does not make Takfir of; (i) the polytheists of the Turkish state, (ii) the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah, (iii) others from those who worship the righteous, (iv) and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk. Such a person according to Shaykh al-Najd is: “… a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and loves Islam and its people.”  If Shaykh al-Najd did not make Takfir of Muslims of Arabia in accordance with his own teachings he would be Kafir. Why, and how can he abstain from Takfir of people whom he believes were Mushrikeen? He cannot and did not therefore to be Muslim in accordance with his own teachings it must be that he made Takfir of people whom he deemed to be Mushrikeen. And we, I and you, know pretty much entire Arabia was belief of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah whom Shaykh al-Najd charged of being engaged in major Shirk. Further more you’ve been abstaining from Takfir of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah and according to teaching of Shaykh al-Najd you’re Moshrek filth like me. You’re Mushrik without affirming Shirk and holding to Tawheed of Wahhabism and refuting Shirk according to Wahhabism. How is that even possible?

Shaykh wrote:

So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them …

It needs to be pointed out that Shaykh al-Najd has made a blanket Takfir, carpet bombed with Takfir which covers all people of Ummah except Wahhabis:

(i) He said Muslims of Turkish state were Mushrikeen. In his time Turkish state was Ottoman Khilafat. Please see map of Turkish Ottoman empire, here. All the Muslims living in territories of Ottoman empire between 1718 to 1790 were Kafir/Mushrik.

(ii) He said grave-worshippers of Makkah are Mushrik. In reality people of Makkah, Madinah, whole of region of Hijaz, and others were already declared to be Mushrikeen in his first qualification … i.e. Turkish State because these territories and others were part of Turkish State, hence all regions were Mushrikeen.

(iii) He said others those who worship the righteous are also Mushrikeen. According to Wahhabism Sunnis, Shias worshipped righteous, and only exception to this is Wahhabis and Wahhabinised. And these ‘Mushrikeen Muslims’ were not only limited to Arabian Peninsula rather beliefs of these ‘Mushrikeen’ were spread far and wide. To Indian subcontinent (i.e.India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afghanistan Bohtan), modern Russian states, vast majority of Africa (Somalia, Mali, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Malaysia … And according to Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabism due to certain practices this over-whelming majority was/is guilty of major Shir therefore Mushrikeen. This qualification is foundation of blanket, carpet bombing the Muslim Ummah with Takfir. And if you resist this Takfir and abstain from Takfir then you’re Mushrik like the Mushriks.

(iv) He said any who leaves Tawheed for Shirk is Kafir (i.e. disbeliever) like them (i.e. Mushrik). This qualification is not targetting anyone specific but it is a general rule. You can consider this qualification as foundation of three previous one. And consider them as explanation of this qualification.

Think about all these lands in morden times and realize which ever country you can think of Wahhabism is minority creed and the dominant and prominant creed WAS/IS of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah. And Shaykh al-Najd the Khariji was making Takfir of majority of Muslims. You will say, you Sufi Moshrek filth, killing you is Halal for me, you lie you Moshrek filth, you’re making this all up there is no proof about entire Ummah not knowing Tawheed. So here you go proponent of Wahhabism says the same in his own way leading to same conclusion i.e. muslim majority is kafir/Mushrik due to being upon Tawheed of Mushrikeen:

قوله: "إن أخوف ما أخاف عليكم الشرك الأصغر" هذا من شفقته صلي الله عليه وسلم بأمته ورحمته ورأفته بهم، فلا خير إلا دلهم عليه وأمرهم به، ولا شر إلا بينه لهم وأخبرهم به ونهاهم عنه; كما قال صلي الله عليه وسلم فيما صح عنه: " ما بعث الله من نبي إلا كان حقا عليه أن يدل أمته على خير ما يعلمه لهم - الحديث

". فإذا كان الشرك الأصغر مخوفا على أصحاب رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم مع كمال علمهم وقوة إيمانهم، فكيف لا يخافه وما فوقه من هو دونهم في العلم والإيمان بمراتب؟ خصوصا إذا عرف أن أكثر علماء الأمصار اليوم لا يعرفون من التوحيد إلا ما أقر به المشركون، وما عرفوا معنى الإلهية التي نفتها كلمة الإخلاص عن كل ما سوى الله-

"Specially if it is known that today the majority of scholars from different (muslim) countries do not know from tawhid except what mushriks (of Makkah) approved and they did not know the meaning of "al-ilahiyya" that "kalimatul-ikhlas" denied its attribution to anything other than Allah.” [Fath Al Majeed – Sharh Kitab At-Tawheed, Chapter (4) Fear Of Shirk, page 76]

Author of Fath al-Majeed, grandson of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, aka Shaykh al-Najd the Khariji, has written that vast majority of Ummah is upon Tawheed of Mushrikeen of Makkah. You tell me if being upon Tawheed of Mushrikeen would qualify this vast majority for Islam or Kufr, and for Muslim or Kafir? Shaykh al-Najd also said majority of Muslims were Mushrikeen/Kafireen:

"It's known regarding the people of our land and the land of al-Hijaz, that those among them who reject the resurrection (after death) are more than those who accept it and that those (among them) who know the religion are less than those who do not ..." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 10, Page 43, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, here.]

"But he came from al-Sham, and they worship Ibn Arabi and have made an idol upon his grave to worship it. I do not mean all of the people of al-Sham, no of course not; rather there does not cease a group [from them] to be upon the truth, even if they're only few." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 2, Page 45, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, here.]


Responding To Wahhabi Brother’s Evidence – Arguing He Didn’t Make Takfir:

You quoted that Shaykh al-Najd wrote:

“And if we do not make takfīr (declaring one an apostate) on the one who worships the idol that is on the grave of 'Abdul-Qādir, and the idol that is on the grave of Ahmad Al-Badawi and their likes, due to their ignorance, and not having someone to explain them, Then how can we make takfīr on those who do not set up partners with Allah.” [Source: Mu'lafāt Ash-Shaykh Al-Imām: Muhammad b. 'Abdil-Wahhāb, Section III, Fatwas & Issues Pg 11]

This is in clear contradiction with what I quoted above and I quote again:

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir upon the polytheists and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah. So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and loves Islam and its people. This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Quran declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

Maybe someone is covering his footsteps, or forgetting what he wrote, or maybe his position changed and position of Durar al-Saniyyah was lattest. Maybe it was earlier position … in that case Shaykh al-Najd is covering his tracks. Or maybe he just forgot what he had written earlier. I don’t know where to go from here. If Durar statement is earlier then Shaykh al-Najd is covering his Takfiri tracks in statement of Mu’lafat. If Mu’lafat was later then this doesn’t bid well for you because then you’re acting on Sunnah of Qadiyanis attempting to wash away contradictions by referring to his earlier positions. For your sake I hope you’re doing this due to ignorance and not inspite of knowing the truth about Shaykh al-Najd. However you roll the ball you and your Shaykh al-Najd loose on basis of what he wrote.

Two Important Questions On Statement of Mu’lafat ash-Shaykh:

(i) If his statement of Takfir which I quoted was earlier one and the one you quoted later then it indicates he retracted. Then why is he saying he did not make Takfir in your quoted statement? (ii) If what I quoted is was his lattest position and what you quoted was his earlier position then why are you trying to cover-up his later position with earlier position?

Shaykh al-Najd Making Takfir According To Association/Loyalty:

He Said:

"As for what the enemies say about me: I make takfīr by using assumption and according to loyalty, or I make takfīr on the ignorant who the evidence wasn't established upon, then this is a great slander " [Same Source, Section V, Personal Letters P. 25]

Shaykh said he does not make Takfir based on loyalty and he does not make Takfir of ignorant folk. Yet in the following statement his Takfir is blanket, inclusive of loyalists of Turkish state, ignorant and educated of Makkah:

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir upon the polytheists and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah. So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state andthe grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and …." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

Or do you disagree? You disagree. Question is does Shaykh al-Najd need to declare someone to be Kafir for them to be Kafir? And can they be Kafir/Mushrik if someone was guilty of Kufr or Shirk? Takfir does not need to be made for someone to be Kafir, or Mushrik. And Shaykh Najd deemed some practices to be major Shirk which were not major Shirk. So in Wahhabism these practices became major Shirk/Kufr and in principle according to Wahhabism anyone engaged in these practices was in reality a Kafir/Mushrik but being unable to explain Wahhabi Tawheed and Shirk to these ‘Mushrikeen’ there was no direct Takfir on individual basis. Instead a blanket Takfir was made which is good as direct Takfir.

Proving Killing Of Muslims Was/Is Permissible In Wahhabism:

I said Shaykh al-Najd permitted killing of Muslims, looting of their property, and enslaving of their women which Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) prohibited:

“That the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alayhi zva sallam ) was emerged among a people that differed from one another in their worship. Among them were those who worshipped the angels. And among them were those who worshipped the prophets and righteous people. And among them were those who worshipped trees and stones. And among them were those who worshipped the sun and the moon. However, the Messenger of Allah ( sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam ) fought against (all of) them and did not differentiate between any of them. [Ref: Qawaid al-Arba, third principle, here.]

“It is absolutely amazing! And more amazing is tat depite their (people of Biddah) reading this story in the books of Tafsir and Hadith, along with their understandings of its meaning, and knowing about the obstruction that Allah has put between them and their hearts, they believed that the deeds of the people of Nuh (i.e. over praising the dead and memorializing their graves with statues) is the best type of worship. They believed in what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden which is the disbelief (Kufr) THAT PERMITS THE TAKING OF LIFE AND WEALTH …” [Ref: Kitab al-Tawheed, Chapter 19, Page 80, Important IOChapter Number 14, here.]

He said fighting/killing Muslims whom he and his Wahhabism deems Mushrik/Kafir is permissible and taking of life and property is also permissible. Wahhabi armies not only did precisely that to the Sunni Muslims of Arabia but they took the women of Sunni Muslims, their wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, and raped them to enforce their right of slavery upon them.

Unjustly Declaring Beliefs Practices Of Muslims As Shirk And Takfir Of Muslims:

Shaykh al-Najd made Takfir of Muslims and permitted killing of Muslims on matters which were not Shirk/Kufr to begin with. Shaykh al-Najd wrote:

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir upon the polytheists and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah. So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state andthe grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and …." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

And lets suppose he did not make direct, formal Takfir of of Muslimf of Arabia, or Ummah. Even this does not change anything because Shaykh al-Najd held belief x, y, z is major Shirk. And even absence of formal Takfir it is still established that in Wahhabism vast majority of Muslims were actually Kafir/Mushrik and only exception to that was Shaykh al-Najd’s followers. And only reason he did not individually make direct Takfir of each and every resident Arabia by mentioning name, Fulan, Ibn Fulan, Ibn Fulan is because task required serveral million written Takfirs. No one makes Takfir like this. We, by that I mean you and I, believe Qadiyanis are Kafir. We judge that on basis of certain criteria. If a person claiming to be Qadiyani meets it we judge him as a Kafir. We judge whole Qadiyaniyyah to be Kafir have we made Hujjah upon all? We haven’t because if Takfir required that we make Hujjah to each and everyone then why would we consider Qadiyanis as Kafirs. When a large group of people is involved in Kufr/Shirk Takfir then scholars give a certain guidelines and by judging on them we can determine if someone is Kafir or not. We don’t need to give Hujjah to entire Qadiyani Jammah to declare them Kafir, or believe they are Kafir, if they meet criteria they are Kafir. Due to large numbers, over whelming majority, 99.99% of Muslims being guilty of major Shirk in teaching of Shaykh al-Najd he could not have issued specific Takfir so he gave a guiding principle on basis of which his followers can judge if someone is Kafir or not. And above quote is proof and example of this kind of guiding principles.

Prophet’s Ummah Will Not Worship Idols, Sun, Moon, Tree, Stones:

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said: “It was narrated from Shaddad bin Aws that the Messenger of Allah said: “The thing that I fear most for my nation is associating others with Allah. I do not say that they will worship the sun or the moon or idols, but deeds done for the sake of anyone other than Allah, and hidden desires.” [Ref: Sunan Ibn Majah, B37, H4205, here.] Another version of same Hadith which is Sahih states: “They will not worship sun, and not moon, and not stones, and not idols …” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad, Musnad Shaamiyeen, Hadith 16671,here.] Zayd Bin al-Hibab Bin Riyaan’s standing is Sudooq, Hassan ul-Hadith (i.e. truthful; Hassan ul-Hadith). Abdul Wahid Bin Ziyad, he is graded as, Thiqa. Ibadah Bin Nasi is Thiqa. And Shaddad Bin Aws Bin Thabit is a companion and he is above false ascription to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). In another Hadith Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) has been reported to have said: "Verily, the Satan has lost all hopes that the worshippers would ever worship him in the peninsula of Arabia, but he (is hopeful) that he would sow the seed of dissension amongst them." [Ref: Muslim, B39, H6752] And Satan worship in language of Quran is idol worship and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said in Arabian Peninsula Muslims will not worship idols in obedience to Satan. Now I know you will contradict me and quote me Ahadith of worship of Dhil Khilasa, al-Laat worship. And here is brief answer. The people worshiping al-Laat, Dhil al-Khilasa the booty shakers will be non-Muslims and this will take long after death of Muslims. A cold musky wind will blow and it will take life of all Muslims/Momins and Satan will come to Kafirs and tell them to worship idols and Kafir Arabs will worship idols mentioned in Hadith i.e. Al-Laat, al-Uzza, Dhil al-Khilasa etc … al-Hasil Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said the Muslims will not worship, idols, sun, moon, stones, trees, and Muslims of Arabia will not worship idols in obedience to satan. Yet Shaykh al-Najd contradicted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) and attempted to make his teachings voids.

Conclusion:

Shaykh al-Najd made Takfir of Muslims excessively, or as i put it blanket Takfir, carpet bombing with Takfir. And Shaykh al-Najd held to understandings which if true then whole Ummah other then him and his followers was upon actual Kufr/Shirk. And he made Takfir unjustly and belied the words of Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam with his teachings. When he said there will be no major Shirk amongst the whole Muslims of Arabia, no idol worship, no sun, moon, start, stone, tree worship Shaykh al-Najd said there is and was.

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.
 Muhammed Ali Razavi.

Abu Muhammad
June 27

I’ve read your text and I have understood the following.

·         You don’t know the difference between ‘Am and Khas rulings.

·         You don’t know who is considered a Scholar & who isn’t and how do we identify who is one and who isn’t as laymen.

·         You don’t know the conditions needed to know an individual and his reliability.

·         You don’t know the difference between using a name, an adjective and a verb in rulings and their meanings.

·         You don’t know all the exclusive rights of a Mujtahid.

·         You don’t know the difference between Fatdwa, Hal & Hukm

·         You don’t know the difference between warnings, dispargements and rulings.

·         You did not name those Salafi scholars today so you don’t even know the methodology of your opponent.

·         You don’t know Salafiyah and you didn’t know it back then.

So when you have actually studied creed, methodology and related sciences under actual scholars then we will discuss, till then actually study (browsing isn’t studying).

Muhammed Ali Razavi
June 27

It would have been soo good if you actually addressed what I wrote instead of like all-mighty wise one posted observations about me. It doesn’t matter about me, what matters is what is established from your texts. Instead of going after what I wrote you went after WHO WROTE IT and thats way of loosers. At the very least refute what I wrote then come after me. Because if you did your job then your observations would have been worth something. Any how I am about to deal with just first, observation I don’t know Aam/Khaas one.

You Said:

“I’ve read your text and I have understood the following: You don’t know the difference between ‘Am and Khas rulings.”

Explaining Hukm Aam And Hukm Khaas:

(i) Hukm Aam, general ruling applicable to all who meet a certain criteria i.e. Wahhabis are Kafir. (ii) Hukm Khas is a specific ruling, in this context, issued about an individual who meets criteria, and upon whom Hujjah is made, Hukm Khas speicificly targets a person and not a whole group i.e. Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was a Kafir.

Your Objective Why You Said What You Said:

Now I have explained to you Hukm Aam and Khaas lets refute what you want to hide behind. The reason you said I am unaware of Hukm Aam and Khaas is because you want to imply that CARPET BOMBING OF MUSLIMS WITH TAKFIR is Hukm Aam and does not apply until Hujjah is made, or until criteria of Kufr/Shirk has been met. In other words you hoped to insinuate Shaykh al-Najd issued his judgment regarding those who committed major Shirk but does not include those who were without Kufr/Shirk even if they lived in Turkish state.

The Reality Of Hukm Aam And Hukm Khaas And Its Application:

Hukm Aam is all inclusive and if conditions of Hukm Aam are met by a person, a whole group, residents of a village, or a city, or a country, then it is applicapable upon all. Let us first burst your bubble about Hukm Aam. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) said:

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.” [Ref: 5:17]

This verse says those who believe/say Jesus is son of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) are guilty of Kufr. This is Hukm Aam about all those who believe as such. The qualifiying criteria is, any who says Jesus is son of Allah, whoever meets this criteria, be it a Christian living right after the time of Isa (alayhis salam), or during the life of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam), or be he Catholic or Protestant, be he Black or White, be he male or female, be they old or young, when and if they affirm Prophet Isa (alayhis salam) is son of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) they are guilty of Kufr. Now do you understand Hukm Aam is all inclusive? It is amazing that you’re intelligent person and educated because you have understood.

How Hukm Aam And Hukm Khaas Work:

Hukm Aam is all inclusive of those who meet the criteria on which the Hukm was issued. Hukm Aam justifies Hukm Khaas. Hukm Khaas is germinates from Hukm Aam. Hukm Aam, those who say Prophet Isa (alayhis salam) is son of Allah have committed Kuffr, Donald meets the criteria, on basis of Hukm Aam we have got specific ruling, DONALD committed Kufr. The whole purpose of Hukm Aam is that from it originates and it supports Hukm Khaas whenever Hukm Khaas needs to be issued. You’re telling me I don’t know nature of Hukm Aam yet the reality is you’re totally and completely unaware of it yourself except a basic linguistic understanding of it. Hukm Aam, every innovation is misguidance, this Hukm Aam gives rise to Hukm Khaas, Mawlid is an innovation. Mawlid is innovation what is it based on? It is based on Hukm Aam, every innovation is misguidance. Entire purpose of Hukm Aam is that it supports Hukm Khaas.

Statement Of Shaykh al-Najd And How It Is Understood:

Shaykh al-Najd Said in his book:

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir upon the polytheists and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah. So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the Turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and (upon) others from those who worship the righteous and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and loves Islam and its people. This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Quran declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

How I See This Statement:

If you say this statement of his is example of Hukm Aam. And I will say you’re spot on because HUKM AAM IS ALL INCLUSIVE. And this is Hukm Aam in Takfir the qualifiers were mentioned earlier and I will do again. Shaykh al-Najd said whoever does not make Takfir of: “(i) … he polytheists of the Turkish state, (ii) the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah, (iii) others from those who worship the righteous, (iv) and left the Tawheed of Allah for Shirk, …” then such a person is Kafir/Mushrik like the ones mentioned. In my understanding each qualifier is individually applicable and Shaykh al-Najd was giving qualifiers which would nullify the Islam of a Wahhabi, or anyone not adhering to his Takfir.

How A Wahhabi Is Likely To Understand It:

Let me interpret it according to how you would like to interpret statement of Shaykh al-Najd. You would say: According to Shaykh al-Najd polytheists IN Turkish state are those who worship graves like people of Makkah, and those who worship the righteous. In other words anywho in Turkish state does so like peopl of Makkah - Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabism deems to be guilty of Shirk.

Now answer my two questions:

(i) The Mushriks of Turkish State via two conditions; were the entirity of Turkish State, or were they a great majority with minority of Muwahideen? In case you say minority was Muwahideen but majority of them were steeped in practices of Shirk but I do not declare/believe they were Mushrik/Kafir. I say to you it matters not if you make their formal/direct TAKFIR. Fact of matter is you believe vast majority of them were in reality upon major Shirk and that alone is criminal enough.

(ii) ANYWHO living in Turkish State guilty of Shirk via these two conditions IS HE MUSHRIK OR NOT? If you said they were not you’re Kafir according to your own Shaykh al-Najd. Do you remember that Hukm Aam supports Hukm Khaas? Hukm Khaas, Abu Muhammad is a Kafir according to Wahhabism. What is support for this Hukm? Shaykh al-Najd said:

“… and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion and hates them and loves Islam and its people. This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists …." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 9, Page 291, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, post 15, here.]

Prophet’s Ummah Will Not Worship Idols, Sun, Moon, Tree, Stones:

Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said:

“It was narrated from Shaddad bin Aws that the Messenger of Allah said: “The thing that I fear most for my nation is associating others with Allah. I do not say that they will worship the sun or the moon or idols, but deeds done for the sake of anyone other than Allah, and hidden desires.” [Ref: Sunan Ibn Majah, B37, H4205, here.]

Another version of same Hadith which is Sahih states:

“… قَالَ: أَمَا إِنَّهُمْ لَا يَعْبُدُونَ شَمْسًا وَلَا قَمَرًا وَلَا حَجَرًا وَلَا وَثَنًا

“They will not worship sun, and not moon, and not stones, and not idols …” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad, Musnad Shaamiyeen, Hadith 16671,here.]

Zayd Bin al-Hibab Bin Riyaan’s standing is Sudooq Hassan ul-Hadith (i.e. truthful; Hassan ul-Hadith). Abdul Wahid Bin Ziyad, he is graded as, Thiqa. Ibadah Bin Nasi is Thiqa. And Shaddad Bin Aws Bin Thabit is a companion and he is above false ascription to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam).

In another Hadith Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) has been reported to have said:

"Verily, the Satan has lost all hopes that the worshippers would ever worship him in the peninsula of Arabia, but he (is hopeful) that he would sow the seed of dissension amongst them." [Ref: Muslim, B39, H6752]

And Satan worship in language of Quran is idol worship and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said in Arabian Peninsula Muslims will not worship idols in obedience to Satan. Now I know you will contradict me and quote me Ahadith of worship of Dhil Khilasa, al-Laat worship. And here is brief answer, the people worshiping al-Laat, Dhil al-Khilasa the booty shakers will be non-Muslims and this will take long after death of Muslims. A cold musky wind will blow and it will take life of all Muslims/Momins and Satan will come to Kafirs and tell them to worship idols and Kafir Arabs will worship idols mentioned in Hadith i.e. Al-Laat, al-Uzza, Dhil al-Khilasa etc … al-Hasil Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said the Muslims will not worship, idols, sun, moon, stones, trees, and Muslims of Arabia will not worship idols in obedience to satan. Yet Shaykh al-Najd contradicted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) and attempted to make his teachings voids.

Brief Comment On What You Wrote:

You read my text and you made observations about me. Well if they make you sleep peacfully do Tilawat with them. Bottom line is you failed to respond to anything and everything I wrote. And all praises are for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) who gave me insight and knowledge to expose your deception and pretendance of being Sunni but now the truth of your Kharijism is revealed. Fact of matter is Wahhabism then and now deemed beliefs practices of OVER-WHELMING MAJORITY of Muslims as major Shirk/Kufr. In other words Wahhabis emphatically believe vast majority was actually Kafir/Mushrik … but say … we didn’t say they were Kafir/Mushrik. That’s like me saying, I believe and know you Wahhabis are bastards in actuality … but I don’t and did not formally say you’re bastards. No body cares about formality of Takfir rather what matters is what you believe about Muslims in actuality. That is vast majority of Muslims then and now are actually in reality Mushrikeen/Kafirs but we formally don’t declare such.

This was my last response to you. I am not spending my valueable time with an empty vessel like you. Go make noises some where else.

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.
Muhammed Ali Razav

Abu Muhammad
June 27

My reply is as it was and it is addressed to what you wrote.

Muhammed Ali Razavi
June 27

Salam alaykum,

When the write up actually completes I will publish it and you will be notified. Repent from your neo-kharijism and become a Sunni Muslim.

Entire foundation of Najdi Dawah was, vast majority, everyone other then Wahhabis are Mushrik and we need to spread Tawheed. And this completely contradicts prophetic teaching found in Hadith.

All the Ahadith which Wahhabis use to argue for Shirk in Ummah such as worship of Dhil al-Khalasa, Uzza, Manat, have been explained in light of prophetic statements. And basicly Arab Kafirs would worship these idols after blowing of wind which will kill all Muslims and all Momins then Kafir Arabs would revert to religion of their forefatehrs i.e. worship of dhil al-Khalasah, Lat, Uzza etc … This refutes and properly explains all evidences which Wahhabis use to prove Muslims will engage in idol worship.

Second part is Ahadith which clearly state Muslims will not worship stones, idols, trees, sun, moon, and Satan worship will not take place in Arabia amongst Muslims i.e. idol wroship not take place amongst Arab Muslims.

With this entire foundation of Najd Dawah collapses. I have written extensively on these Ahadith and explained them in detail. And if youre honest and objective then insha allah you will find truth. All these articles can be found on the link. If you need my help finding them I will find them and link them here. Otherwise Salam alaykum. Our difference is reality of Surah al-Kafiroon. I don’t worship what you worship and you do not worship Allah whom I worship. Your Allah is with hands, feet, shin, womb, eyes, like image of Adam (alayhis salam) and my Allah is nothing like anything …

Our Tawheed is different, out Allah is different, our Shirk is different, … our understanding of Quran is different, … we have no commonality and I cant bridge that huge gap. You live your delusions and misguidance and let me live mine.

Abu Muhammad
June 27

My reply is as it was and it is addressed to what you wrote.

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