Deobandis=Wahabis?!!!

[muslimah123]

Salam,

 

I was just surfing the JaAlHaq website and I'm outraged to see things like, Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi rahimahulla and Molana Nanotvi rahimahullah and Molana Gangohi rahimahulla, may ALlah have mercy on them -Thumma Ameen, are regarde as Wahabi. When wahabis are totally against tassawuf and sufism (which is a branch of deoband) how could you make a link between them?

 

Please read the following: (the truth is in front of you)

I follow Deobandi Ulema but recently was called a Wahabi,our shaikhs Moulana Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi and Qasim Nantowi were called kafirs (about their fatwas like Can Allah swt lie?) What's the truth?

 

The False Allegation - The Truth - Clarification

 

The false propaganda against and blatant fabrications about our highly

acclaimed and respected Ulama of Deoband by the ignorant must be refuted at

all costs. Numerous pamphlets and booklets have been written distorting the

truth about and writings of our distinguished Ulama.

 

Among the most common pamphlets displayed is "Tabliqism - one way ticket to

Hell". "Are these Islamic Beliefs": in one column is the 'Deobandi Tabliqi

Beliefs' and next to it is the 'Islamic beliefs'. However, answers to the

allegations have been given in various publications. Therefore, this

publication will attempt to print all the false allegations and the correct

views.

 

The False Allegation

Rashid Ahmed Gangohi, a founder of Deobandi Movement has the following

beliefs:

1. The Almighty Allah can speak a lie. (Fataawa Rashidiyya part 1 pg. 20)

2. Allah has already spoken a lie (Taqseedul Qadeer pg. 79).

 

The Truth

The view of Hadhrat Moulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi Saheb is that Allah is far

above and pure from being attributed with falsehood. There is no blemish of

falsehood in His words at all for Allah says, 'Who is more truthful than

Allah in speech.' He who believes that Allah speaks a lie is an accursed

outright Kaafir and opposed to the Qurãn and Sunnah. (Fataawa Rashidiyya

part 1 pg. 3)

 

Clarification (I)

Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 84: 'From servant Rashid Ahmed Gangohi, after Salaam

Masnoon, you have inquired concerning the Masalah 'Imkaane Kizb'

(possibility of falsehood). But 'Imkaane Kizb' in the sense that Allah Taãla

has the power to act contrary to what He has ordered, but will not to do

with His Free Will, is the belief of this servant. The Qurãn Shareef and the

Sahih Ahaadith bear testimony to this belief, and this is the belief of all

the Ulama of the Ummah too. For example, Firáwn is promised to be thrown

into Hell, but Allah Taãla has the power to enter him into paradise,

although He will never give him paradise. And this is the Masalah under

discussion at the moment. This is the belief of all my friends. The enemies

must have related it differently. Referring to this Power and the

non-occurrence of it is termed 'Imkaane Zaati' and 'Mumtana bi Ghayr' Was

salaam Rashid Ahmad Gangohi.

 

Look, how they lay waiting with vicious, malicious attempts to defame this

noble personality. If it is not slander then what is it?

 

To distort the above mentioned Masalah and refer it to Hadhrat Moulana

Rashid Ahmad Gangohi Saheb is totally evil and wrong. It is a slander and

slander is worse than back-biting,

 

Clarification (II)

Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 90: 'That person who believes or utters with the

tongue concerning Allah Taãla that "He spoke a lie", is positively a Kaafir,

an accursed and opposed to the Qurãn, Hadith and the unanimity of the Ummah.

He is definitely not a Mu'min. Taãlallaahu ammaa yaqoolu dhaalimoona oluwwan

kabeeraa. (Allah is far above from what the transgressors are saying).'

 

The misrepresenter, besides being involved with misrepresentation, has

earned the wrath of Allah. Let the Hadith of the Master of the Green Dome

once again ring in his ears. 'A person does not target another with impiety

or a person does not target another with Kufr, but it returns to the former

if the latter is not guilty of it.' (Bukhari)

 

Taqdeesul Qadeer is not compiled by the Ulama of Deoband. In fact there is

no such Kitaab by this name.

 

False Allegation

The Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) is not the only Rahmatullil

Aalameen. (Fataawa Rashidiyya part 2 pg. 19)

 

The Truth

The view of Hadhrat Moulana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi is that: ''One should know

that the attribute of being Omnipresent is the quality of Allah Taãla alone,

like All-Knowing, Creator of the Skies and Earths and so forth. Therefore to

attribute this quality of being Omnipresent to someone else, though it be a

'Nabi', 'Wali', or Saint, is to ascribe Partners to Allah in His Qualities,

which is termed as 'Shirk-fis-Sifaat."

 

Clarification

The word 'Rahmatullil Aalameen' is not a characteristic only of Rasulullah

(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam). In fact other Awliyaa, Ambiyaa and

Ulamaa-e-Rabbaniyyeena are also a means of mercy unto the world, although

Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) is the highest of them all.

Therefore, if it is used for others with 'Taaweel' (by elucidation) it is

permissible.' (Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 96/97)

 

 

False Allegation

To lecture on or discuss the Shahaadat of Hadhrat Imaam Hussayn

(Radhiallaahu Ánhu) is Haraam even if the stories are true. (Fataawa

Rashidiyya part 3 pg. 113)

 

Clarification

The incident of the martyrdom of Hadhrat Hussayn (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) who

sacrificed his life for the sake of Truth, is surely very important. But the

method adopted, like beating the chest, tearing the garment, pulling the

hair, slapping the face, shouting slogans of 'Yaa Hussayn, Yaa Hussayn' and

taking out processions to parade in the streets, is what Hadhrat Moulana has

stopped and said is Haraam.'

 

The reason for stopping this is that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam) has forbidden the slapping of faces and the tearing of garments.

 

Therefore to lecture on or discuss the Shahaadat of Hadhrat Hussayn in the

abovementioned fashion, with that type of pomp and show, is forbidden in the

light of the Hadith. (Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 104/105)

 

 

 

 

False Allegation

In the month of Muharram, providing free water and feeding people with milk

or Sharbat is Haraam. (Fataawa Rashidiyya part 3 pg. 113)

 

Clarification

To feed the poor and needy and to distribute water free to quench their

thirst as 'Isaale Sawaab' is no sin. Neither did Moulana Rashid Ahmad

Gangohi nor anyone else say it is Haraam.

 

The Barelvis belief is this, that on the plains of Karbala the martyrs

sacrificed their life in thirst. Therefore, the water that is given here as

a drink, reaches them.

 

It is common sense, that this water does not reach them, nor are they in

need of it. They are in Jannat. If the whole idea is to convey the reward

(Isaale Sawaab), the whole year is available for that. No question arises

then whether to make 'Isaale Sawaab' or not. The practice mentioned above

similitudes the practices of the Rawaafidh; therefore it is Haraam.'

(Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 147/148)

 

 

False Allegation

Ashraf Ali Thanvi, a founder member of Deoband says: 'The Holy Prophet

(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has an education like that of children,

lunatics and animals of every category.' (Hifzul Imaan pg. 7)

 

The Truth

The view of Hadhrat Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi is that: Hadhrat Moulana was

asked, 'Did you in Hifzul Imaan or any other book write anything directly or

indirectly comparing the education of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam) to that of children, lunatics and animals? If not then what is

your ruling regarding a person who holds such a belief?'

In reply to that Moulana states, 'Let alone writing such falsehood and

filth, my heart had never even perceived such falsehood and verily if anyone

holds such a belief he is out of the fold of Islam.' (Faisal-e-Khusoomat pg.

21)

 

Clarification

Hadhrat Hakimul Ummah, Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (author of the famous

'Bahishti Zewar') did not write the abovementioned statement in Hifzul

Imaan. Nor is it his belief. It is a slander on the said Moulana. In fact

Hadhrat Moulana has stated clearly in 'Hifzul Imaan' that, 'Knowledge with

regard to the Excellence of Prophethood has been bestowed totally upon Rasul

(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) (Hifzul Imaan pg. 12)

 

 

False Allegation

Prophets are not free from sins. (Tasfiyatul Aqaaid pg. 24 - Cassim Nanotwi,

a founder of Deoband)

 

 

Clarification

The topic under discussion in 'Tasfiyatul Aqaaid' was this: It was mentioned

in the Hadith, in Shaf'at that on the plain of resurrection people will

gather with great fear, perturbed and disturbed. They will go to Hadhrat

Aadam (Álayhis salaam) and request him to intercede on their behalf in front

of Allah Taãla. Hadhrat Aadam (Álayhis salaam) will refuse and say that it

is beyond his influence, because of the incident that he ate from the tree

of Jannah which was forbidden to him. Hadhrat Aadam (Álayhis salaam) will

say, 'Today Allah's wrath is so great that His anger was never great before

and will never be so great after' (though Allah Taãla has forgiven him). He

will advise them to go to Hadhrat Nuh (Álayhis salaam). In this way people

will flock to the other Ambiyaa (Álayhimus salaam). Each one will be fearful

and reluctant, for some reason or the other to intercede on behalf of man.

At the end when the people will come to Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam), Rasul (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) will say, 'Very well, I will

intercede on your behalf. I will take permission from my Sustainer and He

will grant me that permission.'

 

Hadhrat Moulana wrote that, which was mentioned in the Hadith and not that,

'Prophets (Álayhimus salaam) are not free from sins,' as mentioned in the

said leaflet.

 

False Allegation

Shaytaan has more education than our Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam).

(Barahine Qatia pg. 51 - Khalil Ahmad Ambhetwi)

 

Truth

We strongly believe and openly claim that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam) was given more knowledge than the entire creation of Allah and it

is our belief that whosoever says that anyone has more knowledge than

Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) then such a person is a Kaafir. Our

great Úlama have already given a Fatwa of Kufr upon a person who says

Shaytaan has more knowledge than Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam)

then how could I ever have written such a thing. (Al Muhnad Allal Mufannad

Q&A 18-19)

 

Clarification

It is totally incorrect. This sentence is not written anywhere in 'Baraahine

Qaati'ah', that 'Shaytaan has more knowledge than Rasulullah (Sallallaahu

Álayhi Wasallam).'

 

Moulana Khalil Ahmad was asked whether he wrote such a statement or

not? He replied, 'I did not write such a statement anywhere. It is an open

slander on me. On the day of Qiyaamat account will be taken with Ahmad Raza

Khan.'

 

 

False Allegation

To read Alhamdu Fateha before eating food is Bidat (Fataawa Rashidiyya part

2 pg. 150)

 

Clarification

In order to establish anything in Islam, it is necessary that it be verified

in the light of the Shariáh. Unless it is not proven by the Shariáh, it

cannot be regarded as Deen. Yes, one may call it a matter of convenience.

For example, the use of an electric fan, motor vehicle, etc. The moment a

person wants to make it part and parcel of Deen, immediately it will need

verification from the Shariáh, whether it be Meelaad, Fateha, Giyaarwi, Urs,

Dua-e-Thani, Dua immediately after Janaaza prayer or any other ritual for

that matter. And on failing to be verified, it will be regarded as Bidat -

innovation. The wickedness of being involved in Bidat is that the Sunnats

are automatically left out. As darkness spreads, light vanishes.

 

To read Al-Hamd, Fateha before eating food is not verified and proven in the

Shariáh, therefore, it is a Bidat.

 

Regarding Bidat, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) has decreed:

1. "He who innovates something in this matter of ours that is not of it will

have it rejected." (Bukhari)

2. "Beware of newly-invented matters! For every invented matter is an

innovation and every innovation is leading astray and every leading astray

is in Hell-Fire." (Abu Dawud; Tirmidhi)

 

The 'Masnoon' Duas read by Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) before

meals and after meals, should surely be read. Hadhrat Moulana Rashid Ahmed

Gangohi did not stop anyone from this.

 

 

False Allegation

We cannot make Nikah with any person who takes part in Urs, etc. (Fataawa

Rashidiya part 2 pg. 142)

 

Truth

Moulana Rashid Ahmed says in Fataawa Rashidiya, "Taking part in Urs is not

an act of Kufr therefore Nikah with a person who takes part in Urs is

valid."

 

Clarification

Those who go to the Urs and make Sajdah (prostrate) to the graves, pray for

boon or ask for a favour from the inmates of the graves, and make Tawaaf of

the graves; to solemnise marriages with them will inculcate these Shirk

practices in them and others as well. Therefore, unless they don't make

Tawbah and refrain from such Shirk practices, Nikah is not allowed until

then.

 

False Allegation

Giyaarwi Shareef is Haraam and Kufr, even if Qur'an is read. (Fataawa

Rashidiyya part 1 pg. 95)

 

Clarification

Anything in the name of 'Ghayrullah' (someone other than Allah), whether it

be Giyarwi Shareef' or 'Baarwi', is Haraam. This Masalah is found in Shaami,

Tahtaawi, Bahrur Raaiq and in many other Kitaabs.

 

On the other hand, Esaale Sawaab is permissible. No one prohibited Esaale

Sawaab provided it is done without specifications of time, place and

invitation. But look at the beliefs of these people. They have this belief

that the distribution of sustenance is entrusted to Peerane Peer . If

the Giyaarwi is held back, he will stop the food.

 

False Allegation

It is Sawaab to eat crows (Fataawa Rashidiyya part 2 pg. 130)

 

Clarification:

Crows are of three types: The first type is that which feeds only on grain.

It is exactly like a wild pigeon. It is Halaal according to all Jurists. The

second type is that which only feeds on excreta, and prey on other animals.

It is exactly like a vulture. It is Haraam according to all Jurists. The

third type is that which feeds on grain, eats excreta and it catches and

eats mice as well. It is like an uncaged fowl, which feeds on grain, worms

and even on mice.

 

Hadhrat Moulana wrote concerning this third type of crow that it is not

Haraam. This Masalah of the crow is found in Hidaaya, Durre Mukhtaar,

Fataawa Aalamghiri, as well as the other 'Kitaabs' of Fiqh (Jurisprudence).

 

Therefore, should anyone not eat a crow or a fowl for the rest of his life,

there is no criticism and blame on him according to the Shariáh. Yes, if he

takes it to be Haraam then he will be answerable. Thus whosoever takes it to

be Haraam, in order to correct his belief it is a 'Sawaab' and reward to eat

it.' (Fataawa Rashidiyya pg. 492 Rahimia print)

 

 

False Allegation

Almighty Allah Taãla is not always 'all knowing'. He finds out whenever

necessary. (Taqwiyatul Eemaan pg. 26).

 

Clarification

This is an open Calumny and a False Accusation. This sentence is not written

at all in 'Tawiyatul Eemaan' that 'Allah Taãla is not always "all knowing".

He finds out when necessary.

 

 

False Allegation

The Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) will die and become sand one day.

(Taqwiyatul Imaan pg. 69)

 

Truth

The view of Hadhrat Moulana Rashid Ahmed Saheb is that: The meaning of the

(phrase) 'to lie on sand' has two meanings. The one is to become soil, the

other is the body touches the sand. The latter meaning is meant, and the

Moulana (author of Taqwiyatul Imaan) also believes that the bodies of the

Anbiyaa (Álayhimus salaam) do not turn to dust. Because a deceased is buried

in a grave and he is surrounded with soil all over, his body together with

the 'Kafn' touches the sand beneath him is called 'Mitti me milnaa' - to lie

on sand. Hence, there is no point of objection. (Fataawa Rashidiyya pg.s

83/84)

 

Clarification

In Taqwiyatul Imaan, a Hadith is mentioned in which a Sahaabi (Radhiallaahu

Ánhu) told Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) that the people of other

places bow out of respect to their Rulers; whereas Rasulullah (Sallallaahu

Álayhi Wasallam) is more worthy of being bowed to. At this, Rasulullah

(Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, 'Look if you happen to pass by my grave,

will you bow to it?' The Sahaabi (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) said 'No, I will not do

so.' On this, Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, 'So do not bow

to me ...' (A Sajdah Taazimi is also forbidden).

 

Commentary: 'I will also die one day and lie on sand (buried); therefore am

I worthy to be prostated to?' This phrase 'Mitti me milne waalaa hoo - I

will lie on sand' (meaning to be buried one day), became the bone of

contention for the Barelvis.

 

False Allegation

To think of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) in Salaat is worse than

thinking of cows and donkeys. (Siraate Mustaqeem pg. 150)

 

Clarification

The abovementioned statement is not found anywhere in 'Siraate Mustaqeem'

that, 'To think of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) in Salaat is

worse than thinking of cows and donkeys.'

 

That which was written in 'Sarfe Himmat'. This is terminology used by the

Sufis in Tasawwuf (the spiritual field). 'Sarfe Himmat' in 'Tasawwuf' means

that a person's meditation over a thing becomes so overpowering and

predominant that no other thoughts penetrate into the mind and soul. Like a

mirror, if a person does not want any person's reflection to come into it,

he covers it with a black cloth and thus no reflection will appear. To

contemplate over a figure so that no other thing is contemplated is called

'Sarfe Himmat'.

 

This has been forbidden in Salaat, that besides Allah, 'Sarfe Himmat' should

not be done towards anyone. Salaat should purely and solely be for Allah

alone. If 'Sarfe Himmat' is done towards Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam), then the entire Salaat and Ibaadat will be for him.

 

On the other hand, if any thoughts of cows, donkeys, business, etc. come to

mind, or a person gets drowned in these thoughts whilst in Salaat, it is

regrettable. There is no fear of it being worshipped. In fact the person

regrets that in the course of an esteem Ibaadat like Salaat, he should have

such thoughts, Astaghfirullah.

 

The Kitaab, 'Siraate Mustaqeem' is based on 'Tasawwuf'. The objector is not

versed in Tasawwuf'. Therefore, he has translated 'Sarfe Himmat' to mean a

mere thought.

 

What comes to mind is this; that the Objector presents a picture of a Grade

One child, learning to read and write ABC and wishing to interpret the

writings of Shakespeare.

 

Moreover, it is stated in the Hadith that Salaat should be performed with

full attention. Therefore, when the name of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi

Wasallam) is recited in 'Tashahhud' the thought of the Rasul (Sallallaahu

Álayhi Wasallam) will come and should come. The Salaat will not be rendered

incorrect and this is not unlawful at all. The respected Moulana did not

stop anyone from this.

 

 

Jazakallah Khair

Wasalam

[سگِ عطار]

1st of all you said that deobandis are not wahabis.. then u stated thats we doing false propaganda against deobandis ulema... and after that u copy pasted the false allegation & truth clarification..

 

I didnt read ur all post but few points in false allegation and clarification...

so Just want to ask Few Questions...

 

If we give you scan proofs from Deobandi Books that Ulema-e-Deoband Called them self Wahabi....

 

If we give you scan proofs from Deobandi Book which references u denied in above post......

 

If we give you proofs that ur deobandis molvis makes wrong clarification to save their ulema.. and deobandis books are totally against of islamic education.....

 

Then what will be ur re-action?

 

U have problem to read roman urdu (english urdu) then how can u read scan urdu pages from deobandi books? and there are most chances that u will say.... ohhh... leave it this is also blame on ulema e deoband or... u make it in computer or... u post these pages from ur own printed books...

 

So before we spend our time to answer ur post.. u should clear that... can u read urdu text?... and if we show u references from deobandi original books then u can accept it or prove it this is not a deobandi book... and if we give u proofs that ur deobandi molvi make wrong clarifications then u accept it or prove it wrong with references and conversazione.

 

And ur other deobandi brothers do the same thing which i said... when they see the original pages and read right clarifications then they run away... but we clear them very easly bcoz they know urdu.. and ur problem is that u dont know urdu.. and we dont have deobandi books english versions...

[Abdur Rehman]

Salam,

 

I was just surfing the JaAlHaq website and I'm outraged to see things like, Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi rahimahulla and Molana Nanotvi rahimahullah and Molana Gangohi rahimahulla, may ALlah have mercy on them -Thumma Ameen, are regarde as Wahabi. When wahabis are totally against tassawuf and sufism (which is a branch of deoband) how could you make a link between them?

 

There is no difference between Wahabia - Ghair Muqallad or Wahabia - Muqallad aka Deobandis they both have same mission, same ideology , they are offsprings of same person - Abdullah ibne Ubai and they have inspiration from the same source - ibne Abdul wahab.

 

Wahabia movement was not very succesful because they came all out and openly declared all muslim kafirs and it became very easy to recognize their true face and even the word wahabi became an abuse; therefore it was decided to find out another way of fulfulling wahabi agenda , to carry out the same mission , to infuse the same satanic poison but in a well coated capsule this time . Deobandi camp was set up, with the idea of fooling ordinary muslims by disguising as Hanafis and Sufis so they can easily approach ordinary muslims yet fulfilling the old wahabia satanic mission of depriving muslim masses of their Iman.

 

Deobandis -the wolves in the sheep's disguise- are even worst munafiqs then wahabia and are more dangerous, as by disguising themselves as Sufis and beleiving in Sufi chains and all such things they made it easier for themselves to reach innocent sheeps of Prophet's alaislam herd.

 

First you were advocating Wahabis and objecting on their refutation by Ahlesunna and now you are outraged by finding out that deobandis are also wahabis in the disguise of sufism and all that. as Brother Sage Attar pointed out your so called uleams themselves proudly confessed in their books that they are very stubborn and inflexible wahabis and that wahabi is a name for follower of true islam

 

And these Gangohi , Nanotvi , Thanvi were not made kafir by anyone else they themselves committed kufr by writing such sentences in their published and publicized books and after numerous warnings and calls for explaination, they were declared kafir and gone out of fold of Islam; this fatwa was signed and endorsed by hundreds of top ulemas from Indo-pak and Harmain Sharifain. One can purchase their books and read with ones own eyes what they had written in their books, even a child with little understanding of Islam will say lanatulllah alal kazibeen.

 

The heart that has love of Allah azzawajal and Last Prophet alaislatowaTaslem can not have love and respect for those who said , wrote and propagated such satanic ideas and made their way different than that of mainstream Islam.

Edited 20 مئی 2008 by Saif ul Islam

[Sunni Tehreek]

Muslima nice to see you can copy and paste,

Total copy of Deo Mufti Ebrahim Desi False answer to defend his imams, this has been answered many times, you can check this forum rather than pasting same things again !!!

[Muhammad Furqan]

Muslima nice to see you can copy and paste,

Total copy of Deo Mufti Ebrahim Desi False answer to defend his imams, this has been answered many times, you can check this forum rather than pasting same things again !!!

 

Lol he is rolling at Ask Imam website funny. Plus this "muslimah" (who knows) made another typooo in her message. "rahimahulla" doesn't fit next to Deobandiya ............. C'mon, Stop digging old ones, Come with new ones. I don't even wanna read all of your post as I knew from where did you got that context and used copy paste magic trick.

 

I wish If I was allowed to share thoughts and sayings of your so-called Ulama?...

Edited 20 مئی 2008 by Sybarite
plz show patience and dont use abusive langauge. It is better for IM environment and will also help to get a positive result from Discussions and dont use inappropriate abbreviations.

[muslimah123]

1st of all you said that deobandis are not wahabis.. then u stated thats we doing false propaganda against deobandis ulema... and after that u copy pasted the false allegation & truth clarification..

 

I didnt read ur all post but few points in false allegation and clarification...

so Just want to ask Few Questions...

 

If we give you scan proofs from Deobandi Books that Ulema-e-Deoband Called them self Wahabi....

 

If we give you scan proofs from Deobandi Book which references u denied in above post......

 

If we give you proofs that ur deobandis molvis makes wrong clarification to save their ulema.. and deobandis books are totally against of islamic education.....

 

Then what will be ur re-action?

 

U have problem to read roman urdu (english urdu) then how can u read scan urdu pages from deobandi books? and there are most chances that u will say.... ohhh... leave it this is also blame on ulema e deoband or... u make it in computer or... u post these pages from ur own printed books...

 

So before we spend our time to answer ur post.. u should clear that... can u read urdu text?... and if we show u references from deobandi original books then u can accept it or prove it this is not a deobandi book... and if we give u proofs that ur deobandi molvi make wrong clarifications then u accept it or prove it wrong with references and conversazione.

 

And ur other deobandi brothers do the same thing which i said... when they see the original pages and read right clarifications then they run away... but we clear them very easly bcoz they know urdu.. and ur problem is that u dont know urdu.. and we dont have deobandi books english versions...

 

 

No unfortunately I don't read Urdu.

Guys I just figured something out....Barelwis have issues with deobandis...I was so bummed...no wonder why you guys kept backfiring!

 

Khair, look what I found (Yes it's a copy paste...almost like SCANNING )

 

According to Barelvi belief Muhammad had "knowledge of the unseen" and of the deeds of all Muslims, and also had been given knowledge of all creations by Allah. He is also believed to be created from Noor or "light". (Wikipedia) ...overpraising?/shirk? isn't only Allah s.w.t. that has that knowledge?

 

Do you guyz believe in this? Omg then YOU MUST read this:

 

 

Although the Prophet (SAAW) is the best of examples and following his Sunnah is obligatory, we must remember that it is not right to overpraise him (SAAW) as he was not divine, but a man. Some deviant sects of Islam direct their ‘Ibaadah to the Prophet (SAAW); however, this is Shirk Al-Akbar (association in the highest degree) which will not be forgiven unless that person makes sincere Tawbah before his/her death.

A MAN AND NOT DIVINE Allah says (what means): “Say (O Muhammad SAAW): I am only a man like you: it is revealed to me that your God is One God: So, let him who hopes for the meeting with his Lord, do righteousness, and not associate anything in the worship of hsi Lord.” [Al-Kahf: 111].

The Prophet (SAAW) said (what means): “Do not overpraise me as the Christians overpraised the son of Mary (i.e. ‘Isa AS). I am His slave, so say: Allah’s slave and Messenger.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

SENDING SALAAT AND SALAAM UPON THE NABEE (SAAW)

This is an action which the believer are commanded to do as Allah says in the Qur’an (what means): “Indeed, Allah and His angels send Salaat (i.e. Allah mentions the Prophet’s SAAW name in the presence of the angels) upon the Prophet (SAAW). O you who believe! Send your Salaat and your Salaam upon him (ie. by saying Salla Allahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, etc.).” [Al-Ahzab: 56].

Allah Knows Best

 

 

The disease of [previous] nations has crept up upon you: envy and hatred. Truly, hatred is a shaver: it shaves away not hair, but religion. By Him in whose hand is my soul, you shall not enter paradise until you believe. And you shall not believe until you love one another (Musnad al-Bazzar (c00), 6.192: 2232).[36]

 

 

 

Edited 21 مئی 2008 by Sybarite
Mistakenly posted material as an editing. No changes have been in original post.

[Sybarite]

Clarification # 1

 

In clarification of the first point, Ibrahim Desai says;

 

“For example, Firawn is promised to be thrown into Hell, but Allah Taala has the power to enter him into paradise, although He will never give him paradise.”

 

*Sigh* Common sense is really not so common in Deobandis. I even seriously doubt Ibrahim Desai being a Mufti! The idea Ibrahim Desai trying to impose on people is that Allah has the power to do anything/everything. No doubt about it that Allah has the power to anything/everything as per his holiness! If a non-muslim comes to you and says that you people believe that Allah can do anything/everything then it means your Allah can do bad things too, what would be your response? Obviously (if you have imaan and an ounce of brain) you would say that Allah has the power to do everything but things which are upto his standard! Like a King can do anything he wants, but he surely wont be dancing nude on the streets. A King wont do it cause its not according to his esteemed position.

 

Go and ask Ibrahim Desai that if Allah promised to throw Firawn in hell then how come its possible that Allah will go against what he promised? If its not possible then whats the point of saying Allah can do this, but wont do this?

 

All the deobandis CAN do adultery with their very own mothers, although they will never do.

 

Surely if I say this in public, they’ll declare me as filthy as a swine!

 

Your father CAN dance like a buffoon wearing nothing but a clown’s hat but he will NOT.

 

Surely it’ll offend you because I am presuming a thing which cant be happen.

 

No one has any doubts about the power of Allah . Allah can do anything which suits his almighty status. Do we really need to attribute bad things to Allah to praise his Almighty powers? This could'nt be a part of Imaan!

 

Clarification # 2

 

I don’t know what made Ibrahim Desai utter such a nonsense! What Omnipresence has to do with the title “Rahmatullil Aalameen”? I can drag Ibrahim Desai for miles over this “Omnipresence” issue as well but that’ll be irrelevant here. But there are few points related to the title Rahmatullil Aalameen which Ibrahim Desai had no idea about.

 

Allah entitled Prophet as “Rahmatullil Aalameen”. Mercy to the “Aalameen” = More than one Aalam. No particular period is defined that from this to that period Prophet is a mercy to that aalam and from that to that period a mercy to another aalam. Thus its an established fact that the mercy is for all the worlds (aalameen) at the same time and the mercy is Prophet ! An open evidence of Omnipresence from the title itself.

 

Anyways. lets get back to the title, “Rahmatullil Aalameen”and its so called “Clarification”. The title “Rahmatullil Aalameen” bestowed especially on non other but our Prophet . I challenge the whole Deobandiyat to show me ONE single reference since the creation of the universe that Allah , Prophets, Saints or even an ordinary muslim ever entitled anyone else other than Prophet with this title! And yet these morons call us “biddati”! This title exclusively been used to address Prophet in Quran, in hadith, in every muslim era! We are better off with the 1400 years of Islamic history than this lame mulla's diabolical theories!

 

 

Clarification # 3

 

“But the method adopted, like beating the chest, tearing the garment, pulling the hair, slapping the face, shouting slogans of 'Yaa Hussayn, Yaa Hussayn' and taking out processions to parade in the streets, is what Hadhrat Moulana has stopped and said is Haraam.”

 

Look at the verdict of Gangohi and look at what Ibrahim Desai babbling about!

 

The disputed verdict is about the lecture or discussion over the Shahaadat of Hadhrat Imaam Hussayn . Com’on! Pulling hear, beating the chest and all that is not a part of discussion or lecture! Its called “matam”. Is this sensible that one asks you about the lecture and discussion and you keeps on babbling about the processions parades, beating chest, slapping face?

 

 

Another lame taweel! Why actually Mr. Gangohi, the master of Ibrahim Desai’s masters didn’t write the verdict in an elaborative way as Ibrahim Desai did? Look at the verdict. All it covers is lecturing and stuff. Its Ibrahim Desai who is adding all that matam crap in it as a lame justification to cover up Mr. Gangohi inadequacy as a Mufti!

 

 

Clarification # 4

 

“The Barelvis belief is this, that on the plains of Karbala the martyrs sacrificed their life in thirst. Therefore, the water that is given here as a drink, reaches them.”

 

I hereby challenge all the deobandis on the face of earth to provide the reference of the above statement! Just a single one! But I know, let alone the ordinary deobandis even Ibrahim Desai wont come forward in this regard.

 

Look at Mr. Gangohi’s verdict again. Does it say anything about the water reaching to the martyrs of Karbala or anything related to it? It simply says that providing free water and feeding milk or sharbat to people is Haraam in the month of Muharram. Whereas this very same renowned mufti said in this very fatawa that;

 

 

“During the Hindu festivals of Holi or Diwali, our teacher, master or servant sends kehli or puris (types of food) as a present to us. Is eating or feeding this to Muslim teachers, masters or servants correct or not?”

 

Answer: It is correct. (Fatawa Rasheediya)

 

Feeding milk or sharbat to people is haram in the month of Muharram, but its Halal to eat Hindu's puris at the ocassion of holi/diwali! Is this Islam?

 

This isnt the end, read on for further ridiculous fatwas like this;

 

"Praying at Fatiha gatherings or eating/feeding people shirini (sweets over which Qur’an was recited) on Friday night (meaning Thursday evening) is an innovation of misguidance. It should not be done at all cost!" (Fatawa Rasheediya)

What about this now? You cant even use Ibrahim Desai's lame justification here!

 

 

Clarification # 5

 

 

The view of Hadhrat Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi is that: Hadhrat Moulana was asked, 'Did you in Hifzul Imaan or any other book write anything directly or indirectly comparing the education of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) to that of children, lunatics and animals? If not then what is your ruling regarding a person who holds such a belief?' In reply to that Moulana states, 'Let alone writing such falsehood and filth, my heart had never even perceived such falsehood and verily if anyone holds such a belief he is out of the fold of Islam.' (Faisal-e-Khusoomat pg. 21)

 

First of all, we are not talking about what Ashraf Thanvi been asked about or what he said in refutation of that. We first have to see whether Ashraf Thanvi wrote such a blasphemous statement in his book or not. If a theif gets caught he wont ever say that he really did anything wrong. He'll try his best to veil the truth by crying that he didnt do anything and thats the same Ashraf Thanvi tried to do. However if you really wants to examine the truth just check the book yourself and you'll come to know what Ashraf Thanvi wrote. Below are the original scans from Ashraf Thanvi's Hifz-ul-Imaan, published by Kutb Khana Aziziya, Deoband.

 

 

 

 

I am sure you can read it properly as you earlier said;

 

I speak urdu fluently, I understand it, but It's really difficult to read it written in the english alphabet.

 

If you think its fake, please provide something which actually proves it a fake.

[سگِ عطار]

Welldone Ahmad Bhayi... Great Work...

 

muslimah123... I think its better.. you stop with your 1st post... after that we 'll tell u why we praising our holy prophet .. and whats the difference between our praising & christians praising.. and did our holy prophet know the unseen or not... and did our holy prophet only a man like us... (Muaz Allah)

 

Aur Tum Per Merey Aaqa Ki Inayat Na Sahi

Najdiyo !!! Kalima Perhaney Ka Bhi Aehsan Gaya

 

So now you should start conversazione & reply to Brother Sybarite..

[Abdur Rehman]

According to Barelvi belief Muhammad had "knowledge of the unseen" and of the deeds of all Muslims, and also had been given knowledge of all creations by Allah. He is also believed to be created from Noor or "light". (Wikipedia) ...overpraising?/shirk? isn't only Allah s.w.t. that has that knowledge?

 

Do you guyz believe in this? Omg then YOU MUST read this:

 

First of all you must realize by now that we are Ahlesunnat wal jamat, Barelvi is not any group or sect . we are named and identified as barelvis to be distinguished from Deos who also pronounce themselves as Ahlesunnat wal jamat Hanafi. You can research about the beleieves of Ahlesunnat wal jamat all around the world and compare them with believes of Ahlesunnat of Indo-pak ie Barelvis and that of Deobandis you will know yourself who is who and what is what.

 

If you are living out of Indo-Pak, specially in Uk you have a fantastic chance to know the real difference between Ahlesunnat wal jamat and Deobandi Wahabis as you can look around and find Muslims from various nations Arabs , Africans , Turks etc. Talk with those who have some knowledge about their religion ask them about their believes and rituals and inshaAllah majority of them will be Ahlesunnat wal jamat having identical believes as of Ahlesunnat wal jamat in Indo-Pak known as Barelvis.

 

Providing scanned images from the original disputed books, as an undeniable proof is altogether a different thing. The problem with copy paste is that you are borrowing word of mouth from others and not actually spending time to know and learn for yourself

 

If you do want to know what Ahlesunnat wal jamat believe you should read and learn from their literature and then if you have any objection you are more then welcome to raise that issue if its not being discussed already in forum (try searching before you post)

Edited 21 مئی 2008 by Saif ul Islam

[Abdur Rehman]

Welldone Ahmad Bhayi... Great Work...

 

Aur Tum Per Merey Aaqa Ki Inayat Na Sahi

Najdiyo !!! Kalima Perhaney Ka Bhi Aehsan Gaya

 

So now you should start conversazione & reply to Brother Sybarite..

JazakAllah Sybarite bhai.

and i agree with sag e Attar bhai that muslimah123 should start to the point discussion and reply to Sybarite bhai

[muslimah123]

Lol he is rolling at Ask Imam website funny. Plus this "muslimah" (who knows) made another typooo in her message. "rahimahulla" doesn't fit next to Deobandiya ............. C'mon, Stop digging old ones, Come with new ones. I don't even wanna read all of your post as I knew from where did you got that context and used copy paste magic trick.

 

I wish If I was allowed to share thoughts and sayings of your so-called Ulama?...

 

omg, thats so rude! :S

[muslimah123]

Clarification # 1

 

In clarification of the first point, Ibrahim Desai says;

 

“For example, Firawn is promised to be thrown into Hell, but Allah Taala has the power to enter him into paradise, although He will never give him paradise.”

 

.........................................................

 

..................................I am sure you can read it properly as you earlier said;

 

 

If you think its fake, please provide something which actually proves it a fake.

 

Oh Great, I DOn't READ urdu! I speak and understand it...but i DOnt read it. But even if I did...what are trying to prove?

EVEN IF these statements and SCANs were true...you are basing your facts on mistakes? Didn't the Prohphet s.a.w say to overlook the mistakes of your brotehrs and sisters in Islam. Khair, I'm FED UP to see people that have nothing better to do then insult each other, usually there just people that don't even pray 5x a day and have fun taking part of issues like this. Kaan ka Chaqsa I would say. Khair, may ALLAH s.w.t give us all hidayat. I'm very dissapointed to see the lack of respect and adab on this forum. I'm out.

Edited 22 مئی 2008 by Ya Mohammadah
too long quote

[Ya Mohammadah]

Oh Great, I DOn't READ urdu! I speak and understand it...but i DOnt read it. But even if I did...what are trying to prove?

EVEN IF these statements and SCANs were true...you are basing your facts on mistakes? Didn't the Prohphet s.a.w say to overlook the mistakes of your brotehrs and sisters in Islam. Khair, I'm FED UP to see people that have nothing better to do then insult each other, usually there just people that don't even pray 5x a day and have fun taking part of issues like this. Kaan ka Chaqsa I would say. Khair, may ALLAH s.w.t give us all hidayat. I'm very dissapointed to see the lack of respect and adab on this forum. I'm out.

 

Hey dear brothers!! You should pay respect to deobandis mullas and her deobandi father. (IT Doesnt matter for some Hidyat Yafta's that they don't care to respect our beloved prophet Mohammad ) But it is must to pay respect to her father and Deobandi Mullas. Am I right muslimah baji ??? IS THIS THE DEEN ITSELF ??

[F.Shahzad]

Brother if some one can share the scan pgs of deobandi mulas book in which they have claimed/decalred to be Wahabi.

 

If some one have pls share in new topic. So that in future its easy to locate them

 

Lastly one request to all ...that pls select/use the Topic name that summarizes the contents inside. Bc on some instances its diffcult to search them .

For e.g I m not able to locate "Tehreef Quran topic of deobandis" and Pir Karam Shah tooba naama for "Tehzeer un Naas"

 

Wasalaam

 

Muhammad Faisal

[Sybarite]

Oh Great, I DOn't READ urdu! I speak and understand it...but i DOnt read it. But even if I did...what are trying to prove?

EVEN IF these statements and SCANs were true...you are basing your facts on mistakes? Didn't the Prohphet s.a.w say to overlook the mistakes of your brotehrs and sisters in Islam. Khair, I'm FED UP to see people that have nothing better to do then insult each other, usually there just people that don't even pray 5x a day and have fun taking part of issues like this. Kaan ka Chaqsa I would say. Khair, may ALLAH s.w.t give us all hidayat. I'm very dissapointed to see the lack of respect and adab on this forum. I'm out.

 

Rather than discussing the article you've posted you're now yelling about totally irrelevant things.

 

EVEN IF these statements and SCANs were true...you are basing your facts on mistakes?

 

Lets suppose if they are all mistakes, are there any on-record official repentance from those scholars? If not, WHY? These books are being published since years now. All deobandis did so far is changing a few words! And even that doesnt change the meaning. Try to come up with something strong enough if you really wants to clear things up.

 

Didn't the Prohphet say to overlook the mistakes of your brotehrs and sisters in Islam.

 

Several queries been sent to aforementioned deobandi scholar about those blasphemous statements. They had the chance to repent from what they uttered, or according to you, from what they mistakenly wrote. But unfortunately they didnt. The takfeeri verdicts been given after persistence. No such official repetance ever been shown by those scholars or even by their followers so far. Even they do defend what you're assuming as "Mistakes" and even you posted an example of such a wasted justification by Ibrahim Desai. Those scholars lived their lives without repentance, they had the chance to repent from their mistakes or prove themselves as "not guilty" and thus died in the state kufr.

 

I'm FED UP to see people that have nothing better to do then insult each other,

 

"Insult each other", means you're accusing the opponents (deobandis) of insutling us, just as the way you accused us of "insulting" them! Another simply query comes here (though you never answered any so far but I still dont count you as "hopeless") Did you ever bother to tell them (deobandis) the same things which you're telling us? Did you ever bother to bawl out on your father (as he is a deobandi) just as the way you're bawling at this forum?

 

All I did is posting facts from deobandi's very own authentic books and it seemed "insult" to you. But even after reading all that blasphemous crap you didnt condemn those statements. This clearly elaborates your stance, a typical "Mein na mano ga" kind of Wahabi! We've seen many so you failed to surprise us. Just search through the forum and you'll find a lot of your *kind* runnig away from the discussions they themselves started.

usually there just people that don't even pray 5x a day and have fun taking part of issues like this. Kaan ka Chaqsa I would say.

 

I can imagine the height of frustration you're on! Deobandis openly denies Prophet's knowledge of unseen but yet you're declaring such a statement about those whom you've seen in your life. How come you're aware of the "usual people" here that they dont pray 5 times a day? If its a assumption then please tell us what are grounds this assumption based on? I'd say usually your kind of people have nothing to do in their pathetic life except bringing up an issue and when gets smacked with facts, tries to get away with such lame statements! Khisyani billi khamba noochay I'd say. I hope it wont offend you as its the same tone you've used.

 

 

I'm very dissapointed to see the lack of respect and adab on this forum. I'm out.

 

I am not dissappointed as you arent the first of your kind I've came across (hell! I got an archive !). I evaluated you right after reading your first few postings that just as a typical deobandi/wahabi/najdi, you're unaware of what actually those scholars said whom you're trying to defend. Just as I said, you didnt really surprise me.

 

And please dont talk about "adab" and "respect". Even after being warned you didnt bother to write complete durood instead of "S.A.W" and "S.W.T" but when its comes to your buffoons like Gangohi, Nanotwi, Thanvi, your post addressed them as "rahimahulla, may ALlah have mercy on them -Thumma Ameen". I personally wont even spit on such a "ba'adab" person!

 

Thanks for being with us for this long. This discussion might help some Ihl-e-Imaan to find the truth.

[Ubaid-e-Raza]

good replies by sunni brothers.

ye tu pehle over main out.