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MuhammedAli

Discussion: Hadhir Nadhir.

17 posts in this topic

Salamu alayqum wr wb

 

This is a discussion with a brother on subject of Hadhir Nadhir. I thought it would benefit our brothers and sisters.

 

Please Do Not Respond In This Thread Until The Discussion Is Completed.

 

Muhammed Ali Razavi

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My First Post:

 

As salam aalayqum wr wb,

 

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid (i.e. witness) and a witness must posess two qualties; Hadhir (i.e. present phisically) as well as Nadhir (hearing, seeing). And without these qualities one can not be a truthful witness. Our belief is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef but soul is able to move as soul of Musa (alayhis salam) was able to move from place to place while keeping touch with the body of Musa (alayhis salam) and Nadhir upon his Ummah. Ability of Hadhir Nadhir is a mojzaati qudrat which is not only granted to Awliyah-Allah[1] but to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as well, who is a perfection in being Nadhir and like of which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has granted angle of death.

 

Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states in Quran: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] "We have sent to you an apostle to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent an apostle to Pharaoh." [Ref: 73:15] If the adressed are Muslims in this verse then the verse means Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness regarding the deeds, actions, beliefs of Muslims. The verse can also mean that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witnesss regarding the deeds, beliefs of mankind: “Then addresses the disbelievers of the Quraysh, and along with them the rest of mankind, “Verily, We have sent to you a Messenger to be a witness over you,) meaning, witnessing your deeds. [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 73:15] And it is supported by: "How then if We brought from each people a witness, and We brought you as a witness against these people!" [Ref: 4:41] “One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring you as a witness against these (people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.” [Ref: 16:89] This establishes that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness upon his own Ummah as well as witness upon Ummahs of other Prophets. To be a truthful witness Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) must have seen, heard the events about he is going to bear witness about.

 

Ummah of RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness as well, and Ummah will bear witness against other Ummahs: "Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; ..." [Ref: 2:143] And when the Ummah will be asked how do you bear witness they will say they are bearing witness because they have been told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A Prophet will come on the Day of Resurrection accompanied by one man, and a Prophet will come accompanied by two men, or more than that. Then his people will be called and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to you?’ and they will say, ‘No.’ It will be said to him: ‘Did you convey the message to your people?’ and he will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said to him: ‘Who will bear witness for you?’ He will say: ‘Muhammad and his ummah.’ So Muhammad and his ummah will be called, and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to his people?’ They will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said: ‘How did you know that?’ They will say: ‘Our Prophet came to us and told us that the Messengers had conveyed the message.’ That is the words of Allaah, ‘Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation.’ He said: Just, so that you will be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger will be a witness over you.” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad, Hadith 1164, Sunan Ibn Maajah, Hadith 4284] This establishes that Ummats witnessing over the ummats of other Prophets is soley on the basis of Ummat being informed by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam).

 

[1] Allah becomes hands, feet, eyes, ears, of a muqarrib with which the muqarrib gives, sees hears, and walks. Meaning karamati, mojzati abilities are granted to a Wali by Allah and because a Nabi is born muqarrib therefore Nabi possess these qualities since birth.

 

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Brothers Response:

 

wa alikumusalam!

you said

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid (i.e. witness) and a witness must posess two qualties; Hadhir (i.e. present phisically) as well as Nadhir (hearing, seeing). And without these qualities one can not be a truthful witness.

It is true that your above mentioned two qualities have some weight but these two are not compulsory in all the cases.One can be a witness without being present physically and can give witness on the basis of his knowledge provided to him by some truthful and trustworthy.

And it is clear from the hadith you presented in your post that ummat-e-muhammadiya (saw)will be witnessing over other ummats soley on the basis of being informed by Prophet(SAW).

‘Did you convey the message to your people?’ and he will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said to him: ‘Who will bear witness for you?’ He will say: ‘Muhammad and his ummah.’ So Muhammad and his ummah will be called, and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to his people?’ They will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said: ‘How did you know that?’ They will say: ‘Our Prophet came to us and told us that the Messengers had conveyed the message.’ That is the words of Allaah, ‘Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation.’ He said: Just, so that you will be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger will be a witness over you.

than you said

Our belief is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef but soul is able to move as soul of Musa (alayhis salam) was able to move from place to place while keeping touch with the body of Musa

do you mean by the words " move from place to place " that Prophet(saw) can be hazir nazir at different places at different times and is not hazir nazir all the time at all the places?

 

and you said too

 

[1] Allah becomes hands, feet, eyes, ears, of a muqarrib with which the muqarrib gives, sees hears, and walks. Meaning karamati, mojzati abilities are granted to a Wali by Allah and because a Nabi is born muqarrib therefore Nabi possess these qualities since birth.

It does not mean that muqarrib becomes equal in all these siffats with ALLAH. It is metaphorical statement and can not be understood exactly.

In the end I am trying to paste image of tafseer Ibn kasir which spreads some light on this issue.

post-3206-0-77219200-1359999659.txt

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My First Response:

 

As-Salamu alayqum wr wb

 

It is true that your above mentioned two qualities have some weight but these two are not compulsory in all the cases. One can be a witness without being present physically and can give witness on the basis of his knowledge provided to him by some truthful and trustworthy.

And it is clear from the hadith you presented in your post that ummat-e-muhammadiya (saw)will be witnessing over other ummats soley on the basis of being informed by Prophet(SAW).

‘Did you convey the message to your people?’ and he will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said to him: ‘Who will bear witness for you?’ He will say: ‘Muhammad and his ummah.’ So Muhammad and his ummah will be called, and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to his people?’ They will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said: ‘How did you know that?’ They will say: ‘Our Prophet came to us and told us that the Messengers had conveyed the message.’ That is the words of Allaah, ‘Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation.’ He said: Just, so that you will be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger will be a witness over you.

 

My dear brother a truthful witness must possess two qualities of Hadhir, Isa alayhis salam said, I was witness whilest i was among them meaning he was witness when he was Hadhir among his Ummah:"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things." [Ref: 5:117] Secondly a witness must see the events he is bearing witness to be truthful witness: "He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me - from my (true) self. "And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):- "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front, then is her tale true, and he is a liar!"[Ref: 12:26] and brother of Yusuf alayhis salam said: "Turn ye back to your father, and say, 'O our father! behold! thy son committed theft! we bear witness only to what we know [from first hand experience], and we could not well guard against the unseen!" [Ref: 12:81]

 

Agreed that one can be a witness without being present phisically and actually without seeing the events he is bearing witness about. But question is CAN A PERSON BE A TRUTHFUL WITNESS IF HE HAS NOT SEEN THE EVENTS HE IS BEARING WITNESS ABOUT? What is a man who bears witness in court of law without seeing, hearing and without being present at the events, is he not termed a liar? Also note the Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) clearly will declare that they are bearing witness just on the basis of being told by [Allah subhana wa ta'ala in the Quran and] Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). And this is clearly against the verses of Quran which emphatically state one has to be hadhir: "and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; ..." and nadhir: "And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):-" and upon being first hand witness and knowing the event one can bear witness: "... we bear witness only to what we know [from first hand experience], and we could not well guard against the unseen!" Therefore the witnessing of the Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be testifying of their faith in Allahs Quran and Prophets teaching. Note Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) said: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] this means he has been speificly sent as a Witness. Here the verse clearly means seeing, hearing, present type of witness. Also note that the verse does not say you will be witness on the day of judgemnt, it says you are sent as a witness [in dunya] and if he was witness of type who bears witness after being told by another then would a witness be appropriate word in the verse or a Messenger? And messenger would fit the meaning you give because he has been told by Allah who and he passed the message to his Ummah who is bearing witness against Ummats of previous Prophets. Yet the word Witness has been used. Either Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) didnt know the meaning of witness or Allah knows the meaning of word witness but you have not understood the verse as it should be understood. The verses 73:15, 4:41, 16:89, state that Ummat will bear witness about previous Ummats and the verses,and this does not nessesciate the meaning; Ummat seeing the actions of previous Ummats. But Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a witness does nessesciate him being hearing, seeing witness. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: "Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; ..." [Ref: 2:143] Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness upon his own Ummah because he has been sent as a WITNESS who has seen, heard the events he will bear witness about : "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45]

 

than you said

Our belief is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef but soul is able to move as soul of Musa (alayhis salam) was able to move from place to place while keeping touch with the body of Musa

do you mean by the words " move from place to place " that Prophet(saw) can be hazir nazir at different places at different times and is not hazir nazir all the time at all the places?

 

Let me first explain the concept of Hadhir and Nadhir in detail. Where a person is, there he is Hadhir in that place, as far as he can see, hear he is Nadhir that far. Let me explain how we believe Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is Hadhir. Imagen a candle lit in a dark room, you can take the candle any where in the room yet its light will still illuminate the room. Candle being body Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and light of candle being Nadhir. Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) can go any where with his body but his quwwa of nadhir encampasses the actions of Jin and mankind. He can be in Pakistan and still see the actions mankind, he can be England and he will still see the actions of mankind, where he is Hadhir does not effect his ability of Nadhir. He can be anywhere yet he will see and hear the actions of mankind because he was sent as a Witness upon the actions of mankind. Therefore Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will ensure that his Prophet is seeing, hearing the actions of mankind, Jinn.

 

In short if your question was: do you mean by the words " move from place to place " that Prophet(saw) can be hazir at different places at different times and is not hazir all the time at all the places? Then I will say yes, Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is not Hadhir with his body all the time in all places but he is Hadhir in Madinah ash'shareef in his heavenly grave. What i mean is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hadhir in every place, but he can go to any where he wants, in other words he can be Hadhir where ever he wants to be. Just as candle can be Hadhir in any part of the room and move from place to place yet its light still illuminates the room, in other words candles Nadhir ability will still spread in the entire room. You might have heard that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where. Yes we believe he is Nadhir upon actions of jinkind and mankind, but we do not believe he is hadhir in the entire earth in meaning of his body being on all over the earth. We believe he is Hadhir in one place from there seeing, hearing the actions of jinn and mankind. This misconception is partly fault of opponents of Ahle Sunnat, and partly Ahle Sunnat not explaining their point of view properly. Sunni's say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir on mankind in meaning of just as the candle is said to be hadhir in the room. Note candle is only in one place yet it is said candle is in the room. Candle does not fill the room but its light fills the room and because of light filling the room its said candle is hadhir (present) in the room. Same way Sunni scholars say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir upon mankind and Jinnkind. Meaning that He is Hadhir in place but because he can see, hear the actions of jinn and mankind he is said to be Hadhir and Nadhir over them or witness over them.

 

and you said too

[1] Allah becomes hands, feet, eyes, ears, of a muqarrib with which the muqarrib gives, sees hears, and walks. Meaning karamati, mojzati abilities are granted to a Wali by Allah and because a Nabi is born muqarrib therefore Nabi possess these qualities since birth.

It does not mean that muqarrib becomes equal in all these siffats with ALLAH. It is metaphorical statement and can not be understood exactly.

In the end I am trying to paste image of tafseer Ibn kasir which spreads some light on this issue.

 

Yes my brother we do not believe that a muqarrib becomes equale with Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) or part of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala), because this is Shirk al akbar. Anyone who believes a creation of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) becomes equale with Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) in His attributes such a person is Mushrik (i.e. a kaffir who associates partners with Allah subhana wa ta'ala). A muqarrib does not become equale but Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) grants to muqarrib some powers.

 

Let me interpret the Hadith e qudsi in light of Sahih ahadith: "My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil till I love him, so I become his ears with which he hears, ..." It means that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) grants the ears to hear extra ordinarily, Prophet heard two people being tortured in the grave: "The Prophet once passed by two graves and said, "These two persons are being tortured not for a major sin. One of them never saved himself from being soiled with his urine, while the other used to go about with calumnies(to make enmity between friends)." [Ref: Bukhari, Book 4, Hadith 217] " ... and his eyes with which he sees ..." it means supernatural ability to see, and evidence of this is Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) said: "I happened to pass by Moses as he was busy in saying prayer in his grave, ..." [Ref: Muslim, Book 30, Hadith 5859] meaning of "... , and his hand with which he grips, ..." [and then gives] is explained by hadith of Hadhrat Abu Huraira who told Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) that he forgets ahadith so Prophet: "Spread your Rida' (garment)." I did accordingly and then he moved his hands as if filling them with something (and emptied them in my Rida') and then said, "Take and wrap this sheet over your body." I did it and after that I never forgot any thing. [Ref: Bukhari, Book 3,Hadith 119] and meaning of: "... and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection, I will protect him; and ...." [Ref: Bukhari, Book 76, Hadith 509] is that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) grants the muqarrib jin or man to travel great distances in short time. In the end my objective was to establish that Allah grants his Ambiyah mojzati attributes an to his Awliyah karamati attributes.

 

Also Ibn Kathirs Tafsir no where negates Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) not being witness upon his Ummah. He quotes hadith in which Isa alayhis salam will say I was only witness upon my ummah when i was amongst them, and Prophet said I will say like Isa alayhis salam said. First of all Isa (alayhis salam) will know exactly what his Ummah did after him. Because on his second comming with Imam Mahdi he will know exactly what his Ummah did after him, how his Ummah made him gods, and his mother gods and how they worship them etc ... yet on the day of judgement he will negate his own knowledge regarding what his Ummah as whole has done with his religion. The statement of Isa alayhis salam is statement of humility, and knowingly he will deny his knowledge because Allah will be in jalal. And Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) said he will deny his knowledge like Isa alayhis salam) this means both will be humble in presence of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) even though they know. I have already explained the issue in detail in the Objection, Hadhir nadhir objection:

 

http://www.islamimeh...dpost__p__85026

 

This particular point requires a comprehensive article which probally will be ten page long and for that right now I dont have time. But a outline of the explaination as already in the above response. All I will add is futher evidence to establish that indeed Isa alayhis salam will know what his Ummah did after him. And Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam does indeed know what his Ummah will do after him as well because the hadith establishes he came to know everything:

 

"[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

“Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

This establishes that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will indeed know but he will be humble in presence of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) about his own knowledge as Isa alayhis salam was humble about his knowledge.

 

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.

Muhammed Ali Razavi.

 

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Brother's Second Response:

 

Waiting ...

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Brother's Second Response:

 

Assalmo alilum!

 

I am going to make a quite brief comment on your a bit long post.

 

1: In the Quran Prophet Muhammad(saw) and His ummat has been called " shahid".

 

2: It has been made clear in sahih hadits that in which way and sense these two have been called "shahid " i.e this ummat will bear witness upon previous ummats on the basis of their knowledge provided to them by Prophet(saw) and than Prophet(saw) will testify His ummat.

 

3: If you keep on insisting that two abilities are must for shahid than you will have to accept that this whole ummat is hazir nazir as it has been called shahid.

 

4: now come to that verse where Prophet(saw) has been called mutlaqan shahid i.e 33:45 for this i am going to paste what Imam razi said in his tafseer:

 

{ شَـٰهِداً } يحتمل وجوهاً أحدهما: أنه شاهد على الخلق يوم القيامة كما قال تعالى:

{ وَيَكُونَ ٱلرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا }

[البقرة: 143] وعلى هذا فالنبـي بعث شاهداً أي متحملاً للشهادة ويكون في الآخرة شهيداً أي مؤدياً لما تحمله ثانيها: أنه شاهد أن لا إله إلا الله، وعلى هذا لطيفة وهو أن الله جعل النبـي شاهداً على الوحدانية والشاهد لا يكون مدعياً فالله تعالى لم يجعل النبـي في مسئلة الوحدانية مدعياً لها لأن المدعي من يقول شيئاً على خلاف الظاهر والوحدانية أظهر من الشمس والنبـي عليه السلام كان ادعى النبوة فجعل الله نفسه شاهداً له في مجازاة كونه شاهداً لله فقال تعالى:

{ وَٱللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ }

[المنافقون: 1] وثالثها: أنه شاهد في الدنيا بأحوال الآخرة من الجنة والنار والميزان والصراط وشاهد في الآخرة بأحوال الدنيا بالطاعة والمعصية والصلاح والفساد

 

You said:

 

What i mean is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hadhir in every place, but he can go to any where he wants, in other words he can be Hadhir where ever he wants to be.

Than you presented the the sunni believe as:

 

You might have heard that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where.

There is contradiction between above two statements. You better know the difference between can and is. And majority of sunnies believe that He is hazir nazir not can be hazir nazir. One more thing, I may be wrong but what I could get out of your post that you are restricting the siffat of nazir only to the actions of mankind and jinkind. But what I have studied the sunnies believe that Prophet(saw) is nazir on each iota of universe i.e kaianat kay zaray zaray .

 

You have also commented on my reference of tafseer abn kasir. I wanted to draw you attention toward its reference # 5 not towards # 6. We will discuss this reference # 6 of Ibn kasir if I presented this in my turn of presenting my arguments.

 

Note: As well as I am concern I have no problem If someone believes that Prophet(saw) can be hazir or nazir beiznillah. But do not agree if someone says Prophet is hazir and nazir all the time at all places.

Edited by MuhammedAli

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Salamu alayqum wr wb

 

Before I respond to your actual reply it would be better to establish the actual meaning of verse: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] because upon it the entire discussion hinges. Interpretation of the verse during the life of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was he actually was a witness, in meaning hearing, seeing. Now the verse does not make exceptions such as; only hearing seeing type of witness until you are alive, or only hearing seeing type of witness to actions you see, and words you hea. Rather the hearing and seeing type of witnessing is mutlaq (general) meaning it reffers to all the ages, times, people. And one can not make a mutlaq haqiqi into muqayyid haqiqi but only muqayyid tafsiri.[1] No sane individual can reject this. This verse actually defines the type of witness he will be on the day of judgement (i.e. hearing, seeing tyep of witness). And this verse is mutlaq haqiqi, and its mutlaq meaning will be used to understand his witnessing on the day of judgement. And its implications of seeing, hearing type of witness will be used to understand how his witnessing against his own Ummah and against other Ummahs would be. Meaning, seeing, hearing type witnessing or as you believe; only type of witness who will bear witness upon being told by someone truthful, trustworthy: "One can be a witness without being present physically and can give witness on the basis of his knowledge provided to him by some truthful and trustworthy."[2] And cerntainly the type of witnessing established from Quran is witnessing type of hearing, and seeing.

 

Note Quran is Jawami al Kalim: "I have been sent with jawami al-Kalim. [...] Muhammad said, jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet." [Ref: Bukhari, B87. H141] and nature of Quran is that it explains it self. Hence the interpretation of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah is valid for both of these reasons. We have interpreted Quran with Quran, and according to nature of Quran which is Jawami al Kalim. And as long as one interprets the Quran with Quran, and Quran with Ahadith then all the tafasir of this verse of Quran, and all the interpretations in which these implications of verse are used are valid and can not be rejected, except by those who are destined to read the Quran yet not understand it[3] and those who fallow their methodology.

 

Assalmo alilum!

I am going to make a quite brief comment on your a bit long post.

1: In the Quran Prophet Muhammad(saw) and His ummat has been called " shahid".

 

Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu aalayhi was'sallam) is called Shuhada (i.e. witnesses) and not Shahid (i.e. witness). They will be called to bear witness and not because they are witness to the events: "Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; ..." [Ref: 2:143] in another verse the same is affirmed:"How then if We brought from each people a witness, and We brought you as a witness against these people!" [Ref: 4:41] And Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a actual witness, seeing, hearing type of witness upon his Ummah and previous nations: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45]

 

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be called to bear give testimony as a Shaheed (i.e. a witness) because he is Shahid (i.e. Witness). Where as his Ummah will be called as Shuhada (i.e. witnesses) to testify in defence of Ambiyah (alayhis salam) as a statement of faith in Prophets and as an honor bestowed upon Saliheen to defend Ambiyah (alayhis salam). And this witnessing would be in meaning of; affirming their faith, as the Hawariyoon of Isa (alayhis salam) affirmed their faith in being Muslims: “And when I (Allah) revealed to Al-Hawariyyun (the disciples) [of 'Îsa (Jesus)] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are muslims."[Ref: 5:111]

 

2: It has been made clear in sahih hadits that in which way and sense these two have been called "shahid " i.e this ummat will bear witness upon previous ummats on the basis of their knowledge provided to them by Prophet(saw) and than Prophet(saw) will testify His ummat.

 

First of all Ummah RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) no where as been called Shahid. Can you quote me a reference for your claim, thank you. Secondly it has been established with Sahih Ahadith that Prophet's Ummat will bear witness in defence of Prophets because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has stated in the Quran that each Prophet passed the message to his own Ummah: and secondly because Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) himself has also informed them:

Therefore we the Ahlus Sunnah have no objection to accepting that Ummah will bear witness on being told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). But we do object to your qiyaas; since Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness upon being told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) therefore it must be that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness upon being told by truthful, trusted Muslims from his Ummah. Please quote me a single sahih, definitive meaning hadith, or verse of Quran which states Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness because he will be told by truthful, trusted Muslims about what has happened after him. You believe in qiyaas instead of what Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) revealed: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45]

 

We know on what basis the Ummah will bear witness - being told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) that Prophets delivered the deens given to them. My question is on what basis will Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) bear witness against the ummatis of previous nations? I make a educated guess and say your answers could be, first; “On the basis of Quran in which Allah told stated that Prophets delivered their deen to their nations.” or second: “Truthful, trusted Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness and on this basis Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness.” Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: “O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Shahid, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] Now if you say on the first one then my question which I have already asked, Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) used the word Shahid, if Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) did not mean type of Shahid who fullfils the conditions of Shahid then why did Allah use such a word? Then the word serves no purpose what so ever. And if your choice is second, then this is the paradox of witnessing. Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) told the Ummat that Prophets delivered their messages to their nations. And now in aakhirah, on the day of judgement, the one who informed his Ummah will be told by the truthful, trusted Muslims that Prophets delivered the messages of Allah given to them, to their nations. What a irrational, illogical, and irreligious innovation. Correct interpretation of Hadith is that Ummah will say they were told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) Allah will then ask Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and he will affirm that he has told his Ummah that Prophets passed the deens given to them by Allah to their nations. And Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will not ask Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): 'Who told you that prophets delivered the deen given to them?' because He has sent Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as a seeing, hearing, witness upon his Ummah and previous Ummahs. Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will not be questioned about the source of his information, or asked on what basis he is bearing witness because of the obvious stated in the Quran, that he is hearing, seeing type of witness.

 

3: If you keep on insisting that two abilities are must for shahid than you will have to accept that this whole ummat is hazir nazir as it has been called shahid.

 

I am not insisting on anything other then the established facts of Quran. Where as you my brother are arguing purely based on speculative knowledge, qiyas, assumptions, and neither of these two are source of deen. You have assumed; Ummat is Shahid because they will be witnesses in defence of Prophets. You have assumed just because Ummat has been told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) that Prophets delivered the deen given to them it nesseciates Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing witness based on information given to him someone truthful, trusted. Yet there is no proof either of these. Ummat is indeed Hadhir, Nadhir, infact entire mankind, jinkind is Hadhir, Nadhir in their limited attributes, and restricted evoriments, but not Hadhir Nadhir in the sense that every individual of Ummat is hearing, seeing everything happening on earth. This miralous ability is only granted to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) because he was sent as a Shahid mutlaq: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45]

 

4: now come to that verse where Prophet(saw) has been called mutlaqan shahid i.e 33:45 for this i am going to paste what Imam razi said in his tafseer

{ شَـٰهِداً } يحتمل وجوهاً أحدهما: أنه شاهد على الخلق يوم القيامة كما قال تعالى:

{ وَيَكُونَ ٱلرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا }

[البقرة: 143] وعلى هذا فالنبـي بعث شاهداً أي متحملاً للشهادة ويكون في الآخرة شهيداً أي مؤدياً لما تحمله ثانيها: أنه شاهد أن لا إله إلا الله، وعلى هذا لطيفة وهو أن الله جعل النبـي شاهداً على الوحدانية والشاهد لا يكون مدعياً فالله تعالى لم يجعل النبـي في مسئلة الوحدانية مدعياً لها لأن المدعي من يقول شيئاً على خلاف الظاهر والوحدانية أظهر من الشمس والنبـي عليه السلام كان ادعى النبوة فجعل الله نفسه شاهداً له في مجازاة كونه شاهداً لله فقال تعالى:

{ وَٱللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ }

[المنافقون: 1] وثالثها: أنه شاهد في الدنيا بأحوال الآخرة من الجنة والنار والميزان والصراط وشاهد في الآخرة بأحوال الدنيا بالطاعة والمعصية والصلاح والفساد

 

You did not have to quote me Tafsir of Imam Fakhr ud Din ar'Raazi (rahimullah alayhi ta'ala) because he has said nothing which reffutes anything what I have written. He has given another interpretation which I accept because it accords with Jawami Al Kalim nature of the Quran and it does not contradict with any explicit verses of Quran. As well as it has supportive evidence. Quote me a scholar who has refuted the interpretation of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat. A different interpretation does not mean refutation of how I have interpreted the verse.

 

You said:
What i mean is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hadhir in every place, but he can go to any where he wants, in other words he can be Hadhir where ever he wants to be.

than you presented the the sunni believe as

You might have heard that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where.

there is contradiction between above two statements. You better know the difference between can and is.

and majority of sunnies believe that He is hazir nazir not can be hazir nazir.[/Quote]

 

You have failed to understand what I wrote. The first quote you quoted is in full:

 

What i mean is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hadhir in every place, but he can go to any where he wants, in other words he can be Hadhir where ever he wants to be. Just as candle can be Hadhir in any part of the room and move from place to place yet its light still illuminates the room, in other words candles Nadhir ability will still spread in the entire room.”

 

You quoted the fallowing part:

 

“You might have heard that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where.”

 

But I have explained what you have heard is not what we believe, and told you in the next sentence what we believe:

 

“Yes we believe he is Nadhir upon actions of jinkind and mankind, but we do not believe he is hadhir in the entire earth in meaning of his body being on all over the earth. We believe he is Hadhir in one place from there seeing, hearing the actions of jinn and mankind.”

 

I have gone further then that and termed the belief; that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being hadhir nadhir every where as misconception against Ahle Sunnat:

 

“This misconception is partly fault of opponents of Ahle Sunnat, and partly Ahle Sunnat not explaining their point of view properly.”

 

And then I have gone to explain in which way the Sunnis say Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where:

 

“Sunni's say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir on mankind in meaning of just as the candle is said to be hadhir in the room. Note candle is only in one place yet it is said candle is in the room. Candle does not fill the room but its light fills the room and because of light filling the room its said candle is hadhir (present) in the room. Same way Sunni scholars say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir upon mankind and Jinnkind. Meaning that He is Hadhir in place but because he can see, hear the actions of jinn and mankind he is said to be Hadhir and Nadhir over them or witness over them.”

 

I have stated exactly the same thing in both quotes with slight different words; in one place I wrote Sunnis believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hadhir nadhir every where and in the other place I expressed the same meaning with: “Sunni's say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir on mankind in meaning of just as the candle is said to be hadhir in the room.[...] Same way Sunni scholars say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir upon mankind and Jinnkind. The obvious fact is that Jinn and mankind are every where on earth hence Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) would be Nadhir upon them as explained and Hadhir as explained.

 

Also, all Sunni's believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir and Nadhir, and also believe that he can be Hadhir[4] in any place he wants to with permission of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). And regardless of where he is on earth his ability of Nadhir will encampass the actions of Jinn and Mankind.

 

One more thing, I may be wrong but what I could get out of your post that you are restricting the siffat of nazir only to the actions of mankind and jinkind.

But what I have studied the sunnies believe that Prophet (saw) is nazir on each iota of universe i.e kaianat kay zaray zaray.[/Quote]

 

Yes brother, I am restricting the ability of Nadhir only to the actions of Jinn and Mankind, and restricting his presence (i.e. being Hadhir) to one location at a time. The reason for this resctriction is should be obvious, because only Jinn and Mankind possesses the ability to act good and commit evil. Therefore they will be judged on the day of judgement not the angles and not the animals. I have no where that scholars of Ahlus Sunnah believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Nadhir upon the every spec of universe. And even by chance if I have missed something, I would like to state this emphatically that my investigation, research and strong evidence have lead me to the understanding which I am upon and until I am proven wrong with evidence. I have no intention and reason to disown my established belief.

 

It maybe that you have misunderstood or confused the issue with Ilm Al Ghayb. Has commonly happens the subject of Ilm Al Ghayb and Hadhir Nadhir over lap each other in debates and discussions. For example evidence of Hadhir Nadhir and ilm al ghayb are same: “Allah's Apostle said, "Do you consider or see that my face is towards the Qibla? By Allah, neither your submissiveness nor your bowing is hidden from me, surely I see you from my back." [Ref: Bukhari, B8, H410] in another hadith Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was leading prayers after which he said: "I am your predecessor and I am a witness against you. By Allah, I am now looking at my Tank-lake (Al-Kauthar) and I have been given the keys of the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth).” [Ref: Bukhari, B59, H411] So it could be that he went into Hadhir Nadhir, and from there into subject of Ilm ul ghayb, specificly into subject of mushayda alal ghay.[5] And we do believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was given the knowledge of everything written in al lawh al mafooz, because it contains knowledge of every spec and everythng that was to happen in future and everything that happened before it. So that might be the cause of your confusion.

 

You have also commented on my reference of tafseer abn kasir. I wanted to draw you attention toward its reference # 5 not towards # 6. We will discuss this reference # 6 of Ibn kasir if I presented this in my turn of presenting my arguments. Note: As well as I am concern I have no problem If someone believes that Prophet(saw) can be hazir or nazir beiznillah. But do not agree if someone says Prophet is hazir and nazir all the time at all places.

 

Reference 5 I have not been able to locate in Tafsir Ibn Kathir online version. Brother every being created by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) possesses attributes granted by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) and everyone uses these attributes bi'iznillah. This includes every one, without exception, our hearing seeing, and hearing seeing of Prophets, our being Hadhir Nadhir, and Prophets being hadhir Nadhir everything is bi'iznillah. Anyone who disbelieves in the concept of bi'iznillah such a person is Mushrik, a Kaffir. We believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir all the time but not in all the places. We also believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Nadhir all the time and Nadhir upon the actions of Jinn and mankind. And if you believe this you are one step closer to Ahlus Sunnah then you was.

 

[Continued ...]

Edited by MuhammedAli

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With regards to your refference five, it states that when a Sahabi read the verse: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) cried and stated: "O Lord those who are present with me I will be witness over them but those who i have not seen how [would my witnessing be] about them?" [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad and Tabarani Mujam al Kabir] Before i answer the given evidence, let me lay the foundation of response so that you understand it properly.

 

Ibrahim alayhis salam believed firmly that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will ressuract the mankind but wanted to see how Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will actually do it. So Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) told him to slaughter few birds and then call to them: "And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) said, "My Lord! Show me how You give life to the dead." He (Allah) said: "Do you not believe?" He [ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Yes (I believe), but to be stronger in Faith." He said: "Take four birds, then cause them to incline towards you (then slaughter them, cut them into pieces), and then put a portion of them on every hill, and call them, they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise." [Ref: 2:260] He did as he was told and the birds came flying to him. All this to simulate how the ressurection will begin. And the queston of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) does not indicate that he didnt know, but he wished to see how Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will make him witness upon entire mankind, and how his witnessing would be. Now to answer the point with evidence. In a Hadith it is stated Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) did not know what the angles were contending upon so Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) blessed him with ability to see everything just as Ibrahim (alayhis salam) was given the ability to see everything in the universe: Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Everything of universe was shown to him like Ibrahim (alayhis salam) was shown so he can know a specific thing and be firm on the belief that he is Witness upon all of mankind, the ones before him and the ones after him. Note in the longer version of the hadith Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) tests Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) ability of Shahid by asking him questions: "He (i.e. Allah) said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, ..." [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Each question Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) answers proving that he was granted the mojzati ability of witness in a instant.

 

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.

Muhammed Ali Razavi

 

Footnotes:

 

[1]Example of 'Mutlaq haqiqi' in Surah Ikhlas: "... Allahu ahad (Allah is One)." is example of 'mutlaq haqiqi', which can be made into muqayyid tafisiri. Meaning it can be interpreted with other verses of Quran to mean: Allah is One [in His attributes]. or Allah is One [in His Zaat] or Allah is One [in His Kingship]. or Allah is One [in His being Wali]. But to take it as muqayid haqiqi, in meaning that only this interpretation is intended, is illegitimate. Therefore a Mutlaq haqiqi can not be made into muqayid haqiqi but only a muqayid tafsiri and even that on basis of valid evidence.

 

[2]If your principle: 'One can be a witness without being present physically and can give witness on the basis of his knowledge provided to him by some truthful and trustworthy.' Cannot be accepted on the basis of Quran itself. Note if your principle was correct then the Prophets will be witnesses against their own nations: "How then if We brought from each people a witness, and We brought you as a witness against these people!" [Ref: 4:41] "One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring you as a witness against these (people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.” [Ref: 16:89] If your principle was correct then why would Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) say to the Prophets: "Who will bear witness for you.?" Why didnt Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) accept their witnessing against their own nation? Is there anyone more truthful, more honest, then a Prophet? Allah will not accept the witnessing of truthful, trusted Prophets against their own nations then where does your principle stands in light of this exposition; in the ranks of haq or in the ranks of falsehood, I leave you to decide.

 

[3] “They recite Qur'an but it does not go beyond their throats (i.e. they do not act on it) and they will desert Islam as an arrow goes through a victim's body, so that the hunter, ...” [Ref: Bukhari, B56, H807] Heart of Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was where the Quran was revealed and its the organ which understands the Quran properly. Without Quran reaching heart one can not understand it properly.

 

[4] Note that I did not write that Prophet (salllahu alayhi was'sallam) can be Hadhir Nadhir in any place he wants to, I wrote Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) can be Hadhir where ever he wants to. And also note that I have no where written that we Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) can be Hadhir Nadhir where ever he wants to.

 

[5] We believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) came to see everything of ghayb in other words had mushayda alal ghayb of everything at a specific time: "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] “Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

Edited by MuhammedAli

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Brothers Response:

 

Assalamo alikum!

 

Before I give a proper response to your detailed posts with some arguments I would like to make it sure that what ever I could understand, so for,is correct.

plz don't go in to details just testify it or correct the following statements.

 

1:The ummat will bear witness on being told by Prophet(saw)

2: Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a actual witness, seeing, hearing type of witness upon his Ummah and previous nations.

3: Prophet(saw) is not hazir every where but can be hazir at any place he wants to be.

4: Prophet(saw) is not nazir upon every spec of universe but only nazir to the actions of his ummah and previous ummahs.

 

Me Answering His Points:

 

Salamu alayqum wr wb

 

To your Point:

 

1: Yes Ummat will bear witness because they were told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam).

2: Yes he is actual witness upon his own Ummah and previous Ummahs.

3: Yes Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'salam is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.

4: Yes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spect of universe only nazir on actions of his Ummah, and previous Ummahs of previous Prophets.

 

Your four points accurately reflect what we believe.

 

Brother's Response:

 

Assalamo alikum!

 

Sorry for a little bit late response I will start from point 4 to 1

 

4: Yes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spect of universe only nazir on actions of his Ummah, and previous Ummahs of previous Prophets.

 

You say Prophet (saw) is not Nazir on every spect of universe but your ulema say opposite to it

In ja ul haq p129 mufti Ahmad yar sab says:

 

حضور علیہ السلام کی نگاہ پاک ہر وقت عالم کے ذرہ ذرہ پر ہے اور نماز، تلاوت قرآن، محفل میلاد شریف اور نعت خوانی کی مجالس میں، اسی طرح صالحین کی نماز جنازہ میں خاص طور پر اپنے جسم پاک سے تشریف فرما ہوتے ہیں

 

And on p141 he says:

 

Hazoor hazir hain aur tamam jahan ko mulahiza frma rahay hain mager nazar nai atay. Maoulana Ahmad raza khan sab writes in his book kalis ihtiqad:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

3: Yes Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'salam is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.

 

I agree with you on this point but your ،علما say different thing:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

مفتی احمد یار صاحب جاالحق ص 133 پر کہتے ہیں

 

کسی بندے کو ہر جگہ حاضر و ناظر ماننا شرک نہیں۔۔۔۔دوسرے یہ کہ حضور علیہ السلام کے خدام میں ہر جگہ رہنے کی طاقت ہے تو حضور علیہ السلام میں بدرجہ اولیٰ یہ صفت ہے۔

 

اور ص 134 پر کہتے ہیں

 

خدا کو ہر جگہ میں ماننا بے دینی ہے ہر جگہ میں ہونا تو رسول خدا کی شان ہو سکتی ہے۔

 

1: Yes Ummat will bear witness because they were told by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam).

 

2: Yes he is actual witness upon his own Ummah and previous Ummahs.

 

اب آتے ہیں آیات 2:143 اور 4:41 کی طرف ۔ ان آیات کی تفسیر خود نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرما دی جس کا خلاصہ یہ ہے کہ قیامت کے دن انبیا، کہیں گے ہم نے احکامات پہنچا دئے تھے ان کی امتیں اس سے انکار کریں گی تو انبیا، سے ہوچھا جائے گا تمہارا کوئی گواہ ہے تو وہ کہیں کہ ہاں محمد اور ان کی امت گواہ ہیں اور جب امت محمدیہ گواہی دے گی تو ان پر اعتراض ہو گا کہ تم نے تو وہ زمانہ پایا ہی نہیں پھر گواہی کیسے ؟ تو امت عرض کرے گی ہمیں ہمارے نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے بتایا تھا اس کے بعد نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم امت کی تصدیق کے لئے ان پر گواہی دیں گے۔ یہ سیدھا سا مفہوم ہے ان آیات کا جس میں واضح کر دیا گیا ہے امت کن معنوں میں شھید یعنی گواہ ہے اور نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کن معنوں میں امت پر گواہ ہیں۔ ان آیات سے قطعاً یہ نتیجہ نہیں نکلتا کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم اپنی امت اور گزشتہ امتوں کے اعمال پر ناظر ہیں۔ جس طرح امت محمدیہ شہادت بالتسامع ہے اسی طرح نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی شہادت بھی بالتسامع ہے یعنی شہادۃبالمشاہدہ نہیں ہے۔ اور قرآن بھی اس کی تصدیق کرتا ہے۔

 

وَ مَا کُنْتَ بِجَانِبِ الْغَرْبِیِّ اِذْ قَضَیْنَآ اِلیٰ مُوْسَی الْاَمْرَ وَ مَا کُنْتَ مِنَ الشّٰہِدِیْنَ(القصص 44)

"اور آپ (پہاڑ کے ) مغربی جانب موجود نہ تھے، جب ہم نے موسیٰ علیہ السلام کو احکام دیئے تھے۔ اور آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم

ان لوگوں میں سے نہ تھے، جو (اس وقت)موجود تھے۔

 

وَ مَا کُنْتَ ثَاوِیًا فِیْ اَہْلِ مَدْیَنَ تَتْلُوْا عَلَیْہِمْ ٰایٰتِنَالا وَ ٰلکِنَّا کُنَّا مُرْسِلِیْنَ

(القصص45) "اور نہ اہل مدین میں قیام پذیر تھے کہ ہماری آیتیں لوگوں کو پڑھ کر سنا رہے ہوں، لیکن ہم آپ کو رسول بنانے والے تھے۔ "

 

وَ مَا کُنْتَ لَدَیْہِمْ اِذْ یُلْقُوْنَ اَقْلامَہُمْ اَیُّہُمْ یَکْفُلُ مَرْیَمَ وَ مَا کُنْتَ لَدَیْہِمْ اِذْ یَخْتَصِمُوْنَ

(آل عمران44) "اور آپ تو ان لوگوں کے پاس تھے نہیں اس وقت جب وہ اپنے قلم ڈال رہے تھے، کہ ان میں سے کون مریم کی

سرپرستی کرے؟ اور نہ آپ ان کے پاس اس وقت تھے جب وہ باہم اختلاف کر رہے تھے

 

تِلْکَ مِنْ اَنْبَآء الْغَیْبِ نُوْحِیْہَآ اِلَیْکَ مَا کُنْتَ تَعْلَمُہَآ اَنْتَ وَ لا قَوْمُکَ مِنْ قَبْلِ ہٰذَا فَاصْبِرْ اِنَّ الْعاقبة لِلْمُتَّقِیْن

(ہود49)"یہ(قصہ) اخبار غیب میں سے ہے۔ ہم نے اسے وحی کے ذریعہ سے آپ تک پہنچا دیا۔ اس کو اس (بتانے ) سے قبل نہ آپ ہی جانتے تھے اور نہ آپ کی قوم۔ سو صبر کیجئے، یقیناً نیک انجامی پرہیزگاروں ہی کے لیے ہے۔ "

 

ذٰلِکَ مِنْ اَنْبَاء الْغَیْبِ نُوْحِیْہِ اِلَیْکَ وَ مَا کُنْتَ لَدَیْہِمْ اِذْ اَجْمَعُوْآ اَمْرَہُمْ وَ ہُمْ یَمْکُرُوْنَ

(یوسف102) "یہ (قصہ) غیب کی خبروں میں سے ہے، جس کی ہم آپ کی طرف وحی کرتے ہیں۔ اور آپ ان کے پاس اس وقت موجود نہ تھے جب انہوں نے اپنا ارادہ پختہ کر لیا تھا اور وہ چالیں چل رہے تھے۔

 

اس حوالے سے سورہ تحریم میں بھی واضح کر دیا گیا ہے ازواج نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم بھی یہ عقیدہ نہیں رکھتی تھیں کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم حاضر ناظر ہیں اور جب نبئ (مکرّم صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے اپني ايک زوجہ سے ايک رازدارانہ بات ارشاد فرمائي، پھر جب وہ اُس (بات) کا ذکر کر بيٹھيں اور اللہ نے نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) پر اسے ظاہر فرما ديا تو نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے انہيں اس کا کچھ حصہ جِتا ديا اور کچھ حصہ (بتانے) سے چشم پوشي فرمائي، پھر جب نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے انہيں اِس کي خبر دے دي (کہ آپ راز اِفشاء کر بيٹھي ہيں) تو وہ بوليں: آپ کو يہ کس نے بتا ديا ہے؟ نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے فرمايا کہ مجھے بڑے علم والے بڑي آگاہي والے (رب) نے بتا ديا ہے ہائی لائٹ کئے گئے الفاظ اس مسئلے پر کافی روشنی ڈال رہے ہیں اور بات سمجھنے کے لئے بہت ہیں۔

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My Response:

 

As salamu alayqum wr wb

 

My dear brother you have not replied to my actual discussion rather you have only commented on the four points. Pleasse in future adress the content of the discussion. Adress the evidences used to establish the aqahid. You asked me the questions and I was expecting that once you have clear picture you will address my actual post but instead you have only commented on the four points. You can take as much time as you like to read and respond. There is no urgency on my part. I understand everyone is busy with their life chasing dunya. So people have very little time for deen. You can take your time in replying to me. I am not regular individual who will scream victory or celebrate that you have not responded to me for so long. My cause of celebration would be when we both agree on this issue.

 

You say; Prophet(saw) is not Nazir on every spec of universe but your ulema say opposite to it. In Ja ul Haq page 129 Mufti Ahmad Yar sab says:

 

حضور علیہ السلام کی نگاہ پاک ہر وقت عالم کے ذرہ ذرہ پر ہے اور نماز، تلاوت قرآن، محفل میلاد شریف اور نعت خوانی کی مجالس میں، اسی طرح صالحین کی نماز جنازہ میں خاص طور پر اپنے جسم پاک سے تشریف فرما ہوتے ہیں

 

And on p141 he says:

 

Hazoor hazir hain aur tamam jahan ko mulahiza frma rahay hain mager nazar nai atay.”

 

Maoulana Ahmad Raza Khan Sahib writes in his book Khalis ul Ihtiqad:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

Had you actually paid attention to what was written by me you would have not need to write this. You have written that Ulamah of Ahle Sunnat state Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Nazir upon every spec of the universe and what I have written contradicts them. Before I adress your points let me state something beneficial for studying ikhtilafi issues. It is totally unnesscary to bring into disscussion what the scholars of ahle sunnat have written because what I invite you to is aqeedah of Quran and Hadith. Would you reject what is establish with proofs on the basis of what I have written contradicting Ulamah of Ahle Sunnat? Your criteria for accepting, rejecting is not my 'contradiction' with Ulamah of ahle sunnat but the evidence of Quran and Hadith and it should be the basis for judging validity of my belief not my 'contradictions'.

 

Those people who quote your scholar stated this and you state this during a disscussion do not want to sort the ikhtilaf, understand the ikhtilaf, but such people complicate disscussions to such extent where they are themselves unable to understand anything. Correct methodology is to learn, discuss primarily from Quran and Sunnah once agreement is reached on a subject from these two sources then present; your scholar stated this and I think it contradicts the aqeedah we agreed on. And then it would make sense in explaining or rejecting the statements of scholars. If we dont reach agreement on the evidences of Quran and Hadith on a particular topic then would you care what my scholars have written and what I have written 'contradicting' them? No you won't because the basis of agreeing on a topic creates the need of explaination of statements and statements of sunni scholars. When the basis of agreement does not exist then my statements and writtings of sunni scholars are worthless hence there is no need to explain the statements of sunni scholars or mine. Also lets suppose the impossible my aqeedah of hazir nazir contradicts Sayyidi Ahmad Yar Khan's (rahimullah) and lets just confess for sake of the point; I am at wrong in stating the aqeedah of Hazir nazir and mufti Ahmad Yar Khan (rahimullah) was correct. Now will you accept the aqeedah of hazir nazir? No, I didnt think so either. Or lets suppose the impossible; I Muhammed Ali Razavi say Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan (rahimullah) was wrong and I am correct. Will you now believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hazir nazir? I know you won't. Your bringing this alleged contradiction does not serve any purpose apart from fuelling the ikhtilaf and lenthening the discussion. My dear brother your methodology of disscussion is wrong because you have brought into discussion which will not benefit you or me, if I admit I am wrong, or say Mufti sahib was wrong you gain nothing because you still have to contend with me and my evidences or him and his evidences. Therefore bring into discussion which will help to resolve or soundly refute what we are discussing. Suppose if there was contradiction and I conceed my fault or say Mufti sahib was at wrong then it serves no benefit to you.

 

With regards to statements of scholars. I had explained my self quite clearly in my previous response and even furnished evidence. I had explained that issue of mushayda al ghayb and subject of hazir nazir are closely related:

 

It maybe that you have misunderstood or confused the issue with Ilm Al Ghayb. Has commonly happens the subject of Ilm Al Ghayb and Hadhir Nadhir over lap each other in debates and discussions. For example evidence of Hadhir Nadhir and ilm al ghayb are same: “Allah's Apostle said, "Do you consider or see that my face is towards the Qibla? By Allah, neither your submissiveness nor your bowing is hidden from me, surely I see you from my back." [Ref: Bukhari, B8, H410] in another hadith Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was leading prayers after which he said: "I am your predecessor and I am a witness against you. By Allah, I am now looking at my Tank-lake (Al-Kauthar) and I have been given the keys of the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth).” [Ref: Bukhari, B59, H411] So it could be that he went into Hadhir Nadhir, and from there into subject of Ilm ul ghayb, specificly into subject of mushayda alal ghay.[5] And we do believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was given the knowledge of everything written in al lawh al mafooz, because it contains knowledge of every spec and everythng that was to happen in future and everything that happened before it. So that might be the cause of your confusion.

 

And in footnote 5 I wrote:

 

We believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) came to see everything of ghayb in other words had mushayda alal ghayb of everything at a specific time: "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] “Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

There is no difference in my beliefe and in the belief of scholars of Ahle Sunnat. They wrote about mushayda alal ghayb and Hadhir Nadhir togather as one subject and I have devided them into two subjects. Simply because then it would be easier for us to discuss and easir for you to understand the subject of hazir nazir. And then in discussion about ilm al ghayb I would have established the beliefe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is granted the ability to see all creation. Note this brother, hazir nazir is related to being shahid (i.e. witness) and in this sense the subject of witnessing is only limited to actions of Jinn and mankind. Where as mushayda alal ghayb is subject which isnt specificly about hazir nazir but it is proof for Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) seeing the actions of jinn and mankind. From river you can take a glass of water but you can not take out a river from glass of water. Mushayda alal ghayb subject is river and from it the glass of hazir nazir can be taken out but not other way round.

 

Comming to what Sayyidi Ahmad Yar Khan (rahimullah) wrote in Jaa al Haq, page 162, Zia ul Quran, May 2003 print,

 

حضور علیہ السلام کی نگاہ پاک ہر وقت عالم کے ذرہ ذرہ پر ہے اور نماز، تلاوت قرآن، محفل میلاد شریف اور نعت خوانی کی مجالس میں، اسی طرح صالحین کی نماز جنازہ میں خاص طور پر اپنے جسم پاک سے تشریف فرما ہوتے ہیں

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

And on page 167

 

کسی بندے کو ہر جگہ حاضر و ناظر ماننا شرک نہیں۔۔۔۔دوسرے یہ کہ حضور علیہ السلام کے خدام میں ہر جگہ رہنے کی طاقت ہے تو حضور علیہ السلام میں بدرجہ اولیٰ یہ صفت ہے۔

 

Mufti Ahmad Yar (rahimullah alayhi ta'ala) states Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is watching everything [of the Ghayb]. He has not stated that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is was sent as a seeing, hearing shahid upon every spec of the universe thus it does not contradict anything I have written. He is using evidence of mushayda alal ghayb to prove Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being hearing, seeing type of witness. With regards to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) actually coming to a majlis please read how he defines hazir nazir. I will just quote his Shar'ri definition of hazir nazir:

 

"Hadhir lughvi meaning is being present [infront another] meaning not being Ghayb. - Mutahi Alarb [...] Nadhir has few meanings, Seer - one who sees, pupil [in the eye], sight, vain of nose [??], Cornea, - Al Masabih al Munir [...] As far as we can see there we are Nadhir, and as far place our reach of hand is there we are Hadhir.To sky we can see to there we are Nadhir, but we are not Nadhir that far because its out of our hand reach. And which ever room, or house we are present there we are hazir because [the area of the house] is in our reach. In the world Hadhir Nadhir's shar'ee meaning is that one with angelic power being stationed in one place can see the entire world like palm of his hand, and who can hear, sounds of distance and near or be able to travel anywhere on the earth in a instant. And provide for the hundereds of needy [people]. " [Ref: Jaa al Haq, Page 145, Zia Ul Quran, May 2003 print]

 

So in no way Sayyidi wa Sanadi Mufti Ahmad Yar Khan (rahimullah alayhi ta'ala) wrote that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hazir with his body upon entire universe. You have not read the definition of hazir, nazir in Jaa al Haq and because of that you misunderstood what the quotes actually mean. Similarly you do not interpret the verses of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being Shahid upon his Ummah and previous nations in the context of verse which defines how Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] hence you have misunderstood how he will be shahid.

Edited by MuhammedAli

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Now coming to Khalis ul Ittiqaad of Sayyidi Ala Hazrat Imam e Ahle Sunnat Qutb ul Awliyah wa Ulamah Ahlus Sunnah Ahmad Raza Khan rahimullah alayhi ta'ala. First of all Khalis ul Ittiqaad is book on ilm al ghayb and while writing on this subject he wrote about mushayda alal ghayb:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

I have no aqeedah difference from these scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah only difference between me and these two great scholars is that when they write about hazir nazir they also include the evidences of mushayda alal ghayb hence they summarize the subject or explain the subject of hazir nazir in light of evidences presented. Where as I have only presented the evidences of hazir nazir and I am summarizing, explaining the subject of hazir nazir according to its fundamental evidences and not going into subject of mushayda alal ghayb.

 

 

I agree with you on this point but your ،علما say different thing:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

مفتی احمد یار صاحب جاالحق ص 133 پر کہتے ہیں

 

کسی بندے کو ہر جگہ حاضر و ناظر ماننا شرک نہیں۔۔۔۔دوسرے یہ کہ حضور علیہ السلام کے خدام میں ہر جگہ رہنے کی طاقت ہے تو حضور علیہ السلام میں بدرجہ اولیٰ یہ صفت ہے۔

 

اور ص 134 پر کہتے ہیں

 

خدا کو ہر جگہ میں ماننا بے دینی ہے ہر جگہ میں ہونا تو رسول خدا کی شان ہو سکتی ہے۔

 

Its heart warming to know that me and you atleast agree on one aspect of Hazir Nazir; Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) visiting someone himself. May Allah bless you with knowledge, ameen. Also other statements have been put in perspective of the definition but I was unable to figure out your intent behind presenting this quote of page 169:

 

خدا کو ہر جگہ میں ماننا بے دینی ہے ہر جگہ میں ہونا تو رسول خدا کی شان ہو سکتی ہے۔

 

اب آتے ہیں آیات 2:143 اور 4:41 کی طرف ۔ ان آیات کی تفسیر خود نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرما دی جس کا خلاصہ یہ ہے کہ قیامت کے دن انبیا، کہیں گے ہم نے احکامات پہنچا دئے تھے ان کی امتیں اس سے انکار کریں گی تو انبیا، سے ہوچھا جائے گا تمہارا کوئی گواہ ہے تو وہ کہیں کہ ہاں محمد اور ان کی امت گواہ ہیں اور جب امت محمدیہ گواہی دے گی تو ان پر اعتراض ہو گا کہ تم نے تو وہ زمانہ پایا ہی نہیں پھر گواہی کیسے ؟ تو امت عرض کرے گی ہمیں ہمارے نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے بتایا تھا اس کے بعد نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم امت کی تصدیق کے لئے ان پر گواہی دیں گے۔

یہ سیدھا سا مفہوم ہے ان آیات کا جس میں واضح کر دیا گیا ہے امت کن معنوں میں شھید یعنی گواہ ہے

اور نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کن معنوں میں امت پر گواہ ہیں۔

ان آیات سے قطعاً یہ نتیجہ نہیں نکلتا کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم اپنی امت اور گزشتہ امتوں کے اعمال پر ناظر ہیں۔

جس طرح امت محمدیہ شہادت بالتسامع ہے اسی طرح نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی شہادت بھی بالتسامع ہے یعنی شہادۃبالمشاہدہ نہیں ہے۔ اور قرآن بھی اس کی تصدیق کرتا ہے۔

 

You have written ,shortened, Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness in the sense that his Ummah will bear witness. Ummah will be questioned about the source of their knowledge then Ummah will say Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) told them and then he will bear witness, and in this sense he will be witness not in the sense of seeing, hearing type of witness. My brother your chronology of the events is something I agree with because its based on these verses How then if We brought from each people a witness, and We brought you as a witness against these people!" [Ref: 4:41] "Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; ..." [Ref: 2:143] and on the fallowing hadith: “... ‘Did this one convey the message to you?’ and they will say, ‘No.’ It will be said to him: ‘Did you convey the message to your people?’ and he will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said to him: ‘Who will bear witness for you?’ He will say: ‘Muhammad and his ummah.’ So Muhammad and his ummah will be called, and it will be said to them: ‘Did this one convey the message to his people?’ They will say: ‘Yes.’ It will be said: ‘How did you know that?’ They will say: ‘Our Prophet came to us and told us that the Messengers had conveyed the message.’ That is the words of Allaah, ‘Thus We have made you a just (and the best) nation.’ He said: Just, so that you will be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger will be a witness over you.” [Ref: Musnad Imam Ahmad, Hadith 1164, Sunan Ibn Maajah, Hadith 4284]

 

These verses 4:41, 2:143 were only for the purpose of building up chronological order of events where as the actual evidence which establishes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a seeing, hearing type of witness was this verse: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] And this verse is the key which explains in which meaning Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be witnessing. And you have not commented or reffuted this. This verse explicitly establishes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is seeing hearing type of witness. This verse is the definition, the key which explains the type of witnessing Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing. Ibn Kathir explains which type of witnessing Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing: “(as witness) means, a witness to Allah's Oneness, for there is no God except He, and a witness against mankind for their deeds on the Day of Resurrection. [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 33:45] And this is because Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw the deeds of his Ummah: “And say: "Do deeds! Allah will see your deeds, and (so will) his Messenger and the believers. And you will be brought back to the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen. Then He will inform you of what you used to do." [Ref: 9:105] In another verse Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states that He and Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will see the actions of munafiqeen: ”They will present their excuses to you when ye return to them. Say thou: "Present no excuses: we shall not believe you: Allah hath already informed us of the true state of matters concerning you:It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe: in the end will ye be brought back to Him Who knoweth what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did.” [Ref: 9:94]

 

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a witness: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] and as a witness mutlaq he must possess the qualities which a witness has to possess otherwise he is not a witness. As a witness he must be hazir as stated according to this verse: Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things." [Ref: 5:117] and seeing as this verse indicates: He said: "It was she that sought to seduce me - from my (true) self. "And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus):- "If it be that his shirt is rent from the front, then is her tale true, and he is a liar!"[Ref: 12:26] and have first hand knowledge aquired through seeing hearing as brother of Yusuf (alayhis salam) stated: "Turn ye back to your father, and say, 'O our father! behold! thy son committed theft! we bear witness only to what we know [from first hand experience], and we could not well guard against the unseen!" [Ref: 12:81] otherwise his bearing witness upon nations is untruthful witnessing. His bearing witness nessciates that he is Shahid in meaning of hearing, seeing, otherwise Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) sent him as a witness without qualities of witness (i.e. hearing, seeing, hazir) and we know our Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not blind, was not deaf, and did exist.

 

You have failed to explain the verses of Shahid in a manner which refutes the creed of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat. If creed of Ahle Sunnat was heretical, kuffria, shirkia, then you would have been able to successfully explain away these verses in favour of your understanding but alhamdulillah evidence of ahle sunnat clear and irrefutable.

 

To reffute the aqeedah of Hazir Nazir you have gone into subject of ilm a ghayb like Deobandi's, Wahhabi's generally do and this is the only reason why the scholars of ahle sunnat couple these two subjects togather, and this is the only reason I am going to now right about the subject of hazir nazir and mushayda alal ghayb as one subject. Strickly, subject of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being Shahid and type of Shahid, and his witnessing on previous nations is a different subject from mushayda alal ghayb. Your objections are about ilm al ghayb and using this route you wish to refute our aqeedah of hazir nazir hence it is important that I answer these objections according to the subject it.

 

Before I set out to explain to you the verses. I would like to state something which is fundamental to all of the evidences which you have quoted. We do not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was Shahid upon nations before his birth but we believe it was decree of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to grant him the station of Shahid. We also believe after Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was declared Shahid in revelation of Quran he was granted darja e kamal on being Shahid. What the Ummats did before him was shown to him and what was to happen in future was shown to him as well but he observed it also after reaching darja e kamaal in being shahid.

Edited by MuhammedAli

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We believe that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was shown all the universe just as Ibrahim (alayhis salam) was shown everything in the universe:

 

“Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed His palm between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

"[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

Further the hadith details Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) testing the kamal station of shahid by asking questions:

 

He (i.e. Allah) said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, ..." [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Also after he was shown everything Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) brings to attention of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) by stating: Have you not seen those who have been given a portion of the Scripture? They are being invited to the Book of Allah to settle their dispute, then a party of them turn away, and they are averse.” [Ref: 3:23] “Have you (O Muhammad - peace be upon him) not seen how your Lord dealt with the Owners of the Elephant?[1] ” [Ref: 105:1] and in another verse: “Did you (O Muhammad - peace be upon him) not see how your Lord dealt with 'Ad (people)?” [Ref: 89:6]

 

This establishes that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was shown everything of ghayb and then Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) was reminding Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) about the events which he had been shown.

 

وَ مَا کُنْتَ بِجَانِبِ الْغَرْبِیِّ اِذْ قَضَیْنَآ اِلیٰ مُوْسَی الْاَمْرَ وَ مَا کُنْتَ مِنَ الشّٰہِدِیْنَ

لقصص 44)

 

اور آپ (پہاڑ کے ) مغربی جانب موجود نہ تھے، جب ہم نے موسیٰ علیہ السلام کو احکام دیئے تھے۔ اور آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ان لوگوں میں

سے نہ تھے، جو (اس وقت)موجود تھے۔

 

وَ مَا کُنْتَ ثَاوِیًا فِیْ اَہْلِ مَدْیَنَ تَتْلُوْا عَلَیْہِمْ ٰایٰتِنَالا وَ ٰلکِنَّا کُنَّا مُرْسِلِیْنَ

(القصص45)

"اور نہ اہل مدین میں قیام پذیر تھے کہ ہماری آیتیں لوگوں کو پڑھ کر سنا رہے ہوں، لیکن ہم آپ کو رسول بنانے والے تھے۔ "

 

You have quoted: "You was not on the Western side when We decreed the Commission to Moses, nor was you amongst witnesses (of those events).” [Ref: 28:44] and: “But We raised up (new) generations, and long were the ages that passed over them; but thou wast not a dweller among the people of Madyan, rehearsing Our Signs to them; but it is We Who send apostles (with inspiration).” [Ref: 28:45] First of all this verse does not reffute our aqeedah of hazir nazir because indeed Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not from amongst the shahideen, witnesses, to these events because he was not born yet. His maqam e shahid was granted to him after his birth, after he was instructed to preach deen of Islam and after the verse of shahid was revealed. This verse does not refute our aqeedah of shahid at all. Secondly all these verses negate his being witness to the events while they were taking place. This means he can be witness to these events during his life time.

 

Let me explain the verse, the purpose of revelation of this verse is not to negate the knowledge of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) but to point out to the Jews that even though he was not shahid to the even of Musa (aalayhis salam) he has explained to you these events as he was present to the event and this is supported by: “Allah points out the proof of the prophethood of Muhammad , whereby he told others about matters of the past, and spoke about them as if he were hearing and seeing them for himself. But he was an illiterate man who could not read books, and he grew up among a people who knew nothing of such things.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 28:44] and the two Jalal's explain the verse similarly: “And you were not, O Muhammad (s), on the western side, of the mountain, the valley, or the spot, [to the west] of Moses at the time of the communion, when We decreed, revealed, to Moses the commandment, to deliver the Message to Pharaoh and his people, nor were you among the witnesses, to this, to know it and inform of it;” [Ref: Tafsir Al Jalalayn, 28:44] Also the interpretation of the next verse 45 by mufassireen is so categorically clear in favour of ahle sunnat: “but We brought forth generations, communities, after Moses, and life was prolonged in their case, in other words, they lived long lives and so they forgot the covenants [made with God], knowledge disappeared and revelation ceased. Then We brought you as Messenger and revealed to you the story of Moses and others. And you were not a dweller, a resident, among the people of Midian reciting to them Our revelations (tatlū ‘alayhim āyātinā, a second predicate [after thāwiyan, ‘dweller’), to know their story and inform of it; but truly We are the senders, of you [as Messenger] and [the senders] to you of the stories of former generations.”[Ref: Tafsir Al Jalalayn, 28:45] The Tafsir need bit explaination the point is Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not a man from people of Midian that he would know what had happened in the past. Rather he came to know of the story of Midian via revelation and on the basis of his he has informed the people what transpired in Midian. Ibn Abbas (radiallah ta'ala anh) is supposed to have interpreted the verse in fallowing words: “(But We brought forth) We created (generations) generation after generation, and explained the event of the former to the latter, just as We explained it to you, (and their lives dragged on for them) their lives were prolonged, and when they did not believe We destroyed them. (And thou wast not) O Muhammad (a dweller in Midian, reciting unto them Our revelations) reciting the Qur'an to your people, (but We kept sending (messengers to men)) to past generations and exposited to them the events of those who preceded them just as We explained the events of the people of old to you.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Abbas, 28:45] This establishes that even though Prophet (sallalahu alahi was'sallam) was actual witness to the events nor it him who gave the revelation of Allah to people of Midian yet being a Ummi Prophet who has not learnt anything of any religion yet he knows in detail the events that took place via revelation of Quran. And this is the proof of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being a true Prophet that he knows of events of past, present, and the future events to unfold.

 

Even the Mushrikeen of Makkah knew Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not present in the time of Musa alayhis salam or Isa alayhis salam or Shu'yaib alayhis salam hence there was no reason for Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to say you was not witness to this and this and that, apart from the reason that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) wanted to make them realise that he is truly receiving wahi from Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). They knew he was not learnt, they were reminded that he wasnt witness to these events, no one has claimed that Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was taught the knowledge of previous nations by him, the unmatched beauty of Quran, the mojzaat of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) with all these facts they should be able to come to conclusion that he is not learnt, he wasnt witness to these events, yet he knows the full details of them, this means he is receiving guidance from Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). The purpose of these verses not to negate his knowledge of these events but to negate his witnessing of these events and to establish his Prophethood.

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Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: “We do relate unto thee the most beautiful of stories, in that We reveal to thee this (portion of the) Qur'an: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.” [Ref: 12:3] and these stories were narrated in all over the Quran of evens that had taken place before Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): “Thus do We relate to thee some stories of what happened before: for We have sent thee a Message from Our own Presence.” [Ref: 20:99] These stories were revealed via Wahi as part of Quran: “Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen, which We reveal by inspiration unto thee; nor wast thou (present) with them then when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots.” [Ref: 12:102] No Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not with them but yet he knew of their plan because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) informed him of it. “This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point). [Ref: 3:44] Nor was he witness to the events of when they cast lots to about who would look after Maryam (alayhis salam) but he did knew what had transpired. And that was because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: “This is of the news of the Unseen which We reveal unto you ; neither you nor your people knew it before this. So, be patient. Surely, the (good) end is for those who have Taqwa.” [Ref: 11:49] So Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) revealed to him about incidents which Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not aware of nor were the Arabs before him yet the revelation of Quran narrates these incidences and Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) narrates the incidents of past nations. This was done because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) wishes to remove the rijs from tayyib, meaning the falsehood around the lives of Prophets and to do that he chooses our Prophet (sallalahu aalyhi was'sallam) whom He reveals these stories of ghayb: “Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messenger. (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.” [Ref: 3:179]

 

Note all these verses do not disprove the aqeedah of hazir nazir at all. Rather they have nothing to do with it. We do not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was Shahid on previous Ummats before everything was shown to him, but we believe he was Shahid upon previous Ummats after he had made declaration of Prophethood and more specificly after the entire universe was shown to him of past present and future and through it he came to see all.

 

اس حوالے سے سورہ تحریم میں بھی واضح کر دیا گیا ہے ازواج نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم بھی یہ عقیدہ نہیں رکھتی تھیں کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم حاضر ناظر ہیں

 

اور جب نبئ (مکرّم صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے اپني ايک زوجہ سے ايک رازدارانہ بات ارشاد فرمائي، پھر جب وہ اُس (بات) کا ذکر کر بيٹھيں اور اللہ نے نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) پر اسے ظاہر فرما ديا تو نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے انہيں اس کا کچھ حصہ جِتا ديا اور کچھ حصہ (بتانے) سے چشم پوشي فرمائي، پھر جب نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے انہيں اِس کي خبر دے دي (کہ آپ راز اِفشاء کر بيٹھي ہيں) تو وہ بوليں: آپ کو يہ کس نے بتا ديا ہے؟ نبي (صلي اللہ عليہ وآلہ وسلم) نے فرمايا کہ مجھے بڑے

علم والے بڑي آگاہي والے (رب) نے بتا ديا ہے

ہائی لائٹ کئے گئے الفاظ اس مسئلے پر کافی روشنی ڈال رہے ہیں اور بات سمجھنے کے لئے بہت ہیں

 

My dear brother this is your qiyas that wife of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) did not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not hazir nazir. You have assumed on the basis of her asking: “Who has informed you of this?” implies that Prophet's wife did not believe in his being hazir nazir. Could it not be that wife of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) thought that the one she told the secret to might have told the Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and her assuming that asked Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): “Who has informed you of this?” Because she knows that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) does not lie so he will tell her if her confidence was violated by the one she trusted with secret of Prophet (sallalahu alayi was'sallam). You cannot bring qiyas to reffute what is explicit in the Quran.

 

Let me bring you a qiyas using the same incident of wife of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) betraying his trust. Imagine a Mushrik,a Christian, a Jew come to you and present you this argument: 'Your Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) wife did not believe that her husband was receiving Wahi from Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) nor she believed Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) is watching her actions because had she done so she would not have asked who told him about her betraying his trust she would have known that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has informed him of it.' Now just be honest with your self will you disbelieve in Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and the Quran as word of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) on the basis of just this qiyas? Do you really believe this is a valid argument against disproving Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) receiving wahi? If not then how can you consider your this argument to be valid against the aqeedah of hazir nazir. Just like you will not disbeleive in the aqeedah of Prophet recieiving wahi on this qiyaas but you will believe that the Quran states. I too do not believe in qiyaas which you have invented to distort and destroy deen of Islam.

 

My dear brother deen is very delicate matter we can base our qiyas on ahadith or verses of Quran and reffute the fundamental believes of Quran and Hadith. Tawheed is fundamental aspect of Islam, yet a Christian can take into account use of words We, Us, Our, which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) uses for His ownself and can argue this proves Trinity, father, son, holy ghost make one Allah thats why plurals have been used. Point is that even the harmless information can be distorted to harm deen. And you should be careful if you are not doing exactly that. As a principle you should first explain the verses according to a interpretation and then you should support that interpretation with either Quran, Hadith or backing of scholars. And this is by far the safest path, if you venture into interpretation and deriving information your self from ahadith, and Quran chances are you will infer something from text which is heretical and become heretic and spread heretical understanding among foolish people. As a brother I have advised you to what I consider the best and invited you to what was just and balanced with good intentions. May Allah guide us to better understanding of deen, open our hearts, fill them with noor of guidance, ameen.

 

Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen.

Muhammed Ali Razavi

 

Footnote:

 

[1] The elephant army which came from Yemen under the command of Abrahah Al-Ashram intending to destroy the Ka'bah at Makkah.

Edited by MuhammedAli

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Salam alayqum wr wb

 

I cannot ignore anything you post, it must be replied so chance of me having to explain something again is eliminated.So posts will get longer chance of the replies getting shorter is very little to nill. This is nature of discussion that once it starts many sub-subjects become part of discussion also hence they need to be discussed. I did attempt to keep the discussion short and to the point but you have brought into discussion issues which are not relevent to what I have wrote about.

 

Please as a note, regardless of how general my statement is written, even if the words indicate generality always draw the specific conclusion from the context. I do my best to write in specificly but it is very hard to stick to this. So please do not isolate my writing from its context and from the evidence I use. Always conclude what my position is in the context of what I have written and the light of evidences I have used. Same applies to Jaa al Haq, understand the book in relation to context and its evidence. Also I have realised that I have made the mistake by not explicitly stating the specific sub-subject of hadhir nadhir we would be discussing. So to make it easier the subject of discussion between me and you is: 'Prophet's being Shahid on actions of Jinn and Mankind.' and not: 'Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid Mutliq – Hence Hadhir Nadhir On Every Spec Of Universe.' and not: 'Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) Viewing Of Ghayb Before His Sending.' and this subject can also be written as: Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam being Shahid Roohani/Noorani Before His Birth.'

 

I had assumed that you would not deviate from the path which I have chosen hence we would have easily sorted the subject which I started. And the reason I chose the subject; because it was the easiest to discuss and easiest to establish with proofs and the fundamental part of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) negating which results in kuffr. But unfortunately you decided to bring into discussion Jaa al Haq which brought into the topic all three issues. Now I have to make taweel of my statements according to subject, context, and evidences used for my statements and statements of Mufti Sahib. Otherwise the entire discussion will descend into chaos, confusion, and that will be enough reason for me to terminate the discussion because the purpose of clarifying to you the position of Ahle Sunnat on hadhir nadhir would be defeated due to the discussion descending into state of confusion, chaos.

 

This was my last response. My appologies I cannot devote much time to discussions which have no end in sight. I think enough has been written on this topic to allow you to decide.

 

Thanks for your such a detailed post.I had requested you not to write such a lengthy posts but I know sometimes things are not in one’s control.The reason to quote your ulemas was just to draw your attention towards this that , in my point of view , I feel contradiction between you and them.I am reposting them so that you may review them, no need to re comment on it.

 

You say:

 

Yes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spect of universe only nazir on actions of his Ummah, and previous Ummahs of previous Prophets.

 

Your ulema say in ja ul haq p129 mufti Ahmad yar sab says:

 

حضور علیہ السلام کی نگاہ پاک ہر وقت عالم کے ذرہ ذرہ پر ہے اور نماز، تلاوت قرآن، محفل میلاد شریف اور نعت خوانی کی مجالس میں، اسی طرح صالحین کی نماز جنازہ میں خاص طور پر اپنے جسم پاک سے تشریف فرما ہوتے ہیں

 

And on p141 he says: “Hazoor hazir hain aur tamam jahan ko mulahiza frma rahay hain mager nazar nai atay.” Maoulana Ahmad raza khan sab writes in his book kalis ihtiqad:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

You say:

 

Yes Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'salam is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.

 

Your ulema say:

 

نبی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

مفتی احمد یار صاحب جاالحق ص 133 پر کہتے ہیں

 

کسی بندے کو ہر جگہ حاضر و ناظر ماننا شرک نہیں۔۔۔۔دوسرے یہ کہ حضور علیہ السلام کے خدام میں ہر جگہ رہنے کی طاقت ہے تو حضور علیہ السلام میں بدرجہ اولیٰ یہ صفت ہے۔

اور ص 134 پر کہتے ہیں

 

خدا کو ہر جگہ میں ماننا بے دینی ہے ہر جگہ میں ہونا تو رسول خدا کی شان ہو سکتی ہے۔

اور ص 118 میں لکھتے ہیں

اس سے معلوم ہوا کہ حضور علیہ السلام قیامت تک ہر جگہ موجود ہیں۔

 

The verse of the Qur'an states: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] this indicates that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a mutliq shahid, not just witness to actions of jinn and mankind. The tekhsees of over the actions of jinn and mankind was made by interpretation but the takhsees can not restrict mutliq meaning of the verse.Also he has been sent as a shahid on this dunya if the verse refered to his witnessing on the day of judgement it would have stated: “O Prophet! Truly you will be Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." So he was a hearing,seeing, type of shahid when he was sent as a bashr on earth. If witness of RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was limited, restricted by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) then Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) would have stated so in the verse. This is evidence that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is shahid mutliq in other words shahid qulli. And this was stated by Mufti Sayyidi Ahmad Yar Khan (rahimullah) when he wrote Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is watching every spec of the universe, as well as the mentioned:

 

حضور علیہ السلام کی نگاہ پاک ہر وقت عالم کے ذرہ ذرہ پر ہے اور نماز، تلاوت قرآن، محفل میلاد شریف اور نعت خوانی کی مجالس میں، اسی طرح صالحین کی نماز جنازہ میں خاص طور پر اپنے جسم پاک سے تشریف فرما ہوتے ہیں

 

I wrote:

 

“Yes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spect of universe only nazir on actions of his Ummah, and previous Ummahs of previous Prophets.”

 

It was written in the context of takhsees (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is shahid on actions of Jinn and mankind) and I supported the takhsees with evidences of Quran and hadith. So in context of takhsees I wrote Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is shahid on the actions of Jinn and mankind because the takhsees nessciates that I affirm Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness upon the actions of Jinn and mankind. And according to the evidence of takhsees it is clear that he does not have to be shahid spec of the universe rather he has to be shahid on actions of jin and mankind.

 

I simply narrowed the discussion to a point for ease of discussion. It should be obvious to you that being shahid on every spec of universe is general hadhir nadhir concept where as I have started a specific concept (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam being Shahid onactions of Jinn and Mankind) within general concept of hadhir nadhir (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is Shahid upon entire universe including incident of past). You have compared my statements which are about a specific concept hadhir nadhir with the scholars of Ahle Sunnat; who have written about general concept of hadhir nadhir. All you have done is created confusion for your self.

=

 

Comming to statement:

 

بی صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم حاضر و ناظر ہیں اور دنیا میں جو کچھ ہوا اور جو کچھ ہو گا، آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر چیز کا مشاہدہ فرما رہے ہیں۔ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم ہر جگہ حاضر ہیں اور ہر چیز کو دیکھ رہے ہیں

 

Again this statement of Ala Hadhrat is about general concept of Hadhir Nadhir and has no relation to specific context I wrote. Part of this statement has been explained above. The second aspect of the statement where it states Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hazir in every place was explained previously:

 

“In short if your question was:do you mean by the words " move from place to place " that Prophet(saw) can be hazir at different places at different times and is not hazir all the time at all the places? Then I will say yes, Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is not Hadhir with his body all the time in all places but he is Hadhir in Madinah ash'shareef in his heavenly grave. What i mean is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hadhir in every place, but he can go to any where he wants, in other words he can be Hadhir where ever he wants to be. Just as candle can be Hadhir in any part of the room and move from place to place yet its light still illuminates the room, in other words candles Nadhir ability will still spread in the entire room. You might have heard that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir every where. Yes we believe he is Nadhir upon actions of jinkind and mankind, but we do not believe he is hadhir in the entire earth in meaning of his body being on all over the earth. We believe he is Hadhir in one place from there seeing, hearing the actions of jinn and mankind. This misconception is partly fault of opponents of Ahle Sunnat, and partly Ahle Sunnat not explaining their point of view properly. Sunni's say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir on mankind in meaning of just as the candle is said to be hadhir in the room. Note candle is only in one place yet it is said candle is in the room. Candle does not fill the room but its light fills the room and because of light filling the room its said candle is hadhir (present) in the room. Same way Sunni scholars say Prophet is Hadhir Nadhir upon mankind and Jinnkind. Meaning that He is Hadhir in place but because he can see, hear the actions of jinn and mankind he is said to be Hadhir and Nadhir over them or witness over them.”

 

In Ja al Haq Mufti Sahib has explained in which meaning Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hadhir and nadhir in every place:

 

"Hadhir lughvi meaning is being present [infront another] meaning not being Ghayb. - Mutahi Alarb [...] Nadhir has few meanings, Seer - one who sees, pupil [in the eye], sight, vain of nose [??], Cornea, - Al Masabih al Munir [...] As far as we can see there we are Nadhir, and as far place our reach of hand and act is there we are Hadhir.To sky we can see to there we are Nadhir, but we are not Nadhir that far because its out of our hand reach. And which ever room, or house we are present there we are hazir because [the area of the house] is in our reach. In the world Hadhir Nadhir's shar'ee meaning is that one with angelic power being stationed in one place can see the entire world like palm of his hand, and who can hear, sounds of distance and near or be able to travel anywhere on the earth in a instant. And provide for the hundereds of needy [people]. " [Ref: Jaa al Haq, Page 145, Zia Ul Quran, May 2003 print]

 

The underlined part explains how concept of Hadhir is understood as far as the hand can reach [to do something with] there we are hadhir. And Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir Nadhir in shara'ee meaning. Let me explain with a example. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) is the one who grants and Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is the distributor. When Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) wishes to grant anything to anyone he grants it via Prophet (sallalahu alayhhi was'sallam).[1] And him being distributor requires that he has reach all over the world and power; of tassaruf as well as power to distribute all over the world. In other words the world is in his reach hence he is hadhir in this meaning to every place. Hence he is stationed in one place but he his reach is all over the world and he has power of tassaruf and ability to distribute all over the world and in this meaning he is hadhir on every place. In short Mufti Ahmad Yar sahib have stated that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hazir every where in meaning of; Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) having ability of tassaruf over the inhabitant of the world.

 

Comming to my statement:

 

“Yes Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'salam is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.”

 

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Hazir every where, every place with his body or soul. It was written to negate the halool misconception amongst Deobandis/Wahhabis who think that Sunni's believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is believed to be halool in the creation with his body and soul. What I have wrote is absolutely different from what Mufti Sahib stated: Mufti Sahib has stated Prophet is hadhir in every place in meaning of where his reach is there he is hadhir: “... aur jis jaga taq hamari das'taras ho ke tassaruf ker lenh wahan taq ham hazir hen.” I negated halool of body as well as soul of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) in the world. Mufti Sahib negates halool of body/soul of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as well: Aalam meh hazir nazir kay shar'i mani yeh hen ke quwwat e qudsiyya wala ek hee jaga reh ker tamam alam ko apnay kaf e dast kee tera dekhay aur door o qareeb kee awazen suneh ...” Mufti Sahib has termed Prophet's ability of tassaruf in the every place of world as his being hazir in every place and I too believe that and the reason and evidence as already been discussed above.

 

I have not adressed all the statements quoted by you because the implications for all of them are same. What I recommend is that you read the Ja Al Haq and study the definition of Ja al Haq properly and think about the implications of definition. What ever quote you have, you need to go back to the definition of hazir nazir in Jaa al Haq and you read the definition and try to figure out in which meaning Mufti Sahib has written it in. The definition of hadhir nadhir is the key to understanding hadhir nadhir if you do not learn the definition of hazir nazir in Jaa al Haq you will not be able to understand anything. I only had simplified the complex statements which confuse non-sunni's for your ease. But now I am having to explain those complex statements to you. I have stated nothing against the aqeedah of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat. All I have done is stated the aqeedah of Ahle Sunnat in a clear, unambigous and in simplest way so you do not get confused while discussing with me on this subject but despite my effort you have not helped your self. And now I feel the discussion rather then solving anything will become more complex and create more confusion in your mind. I also recommend that you relate to my earlier responses because my later responses explain the earlier ones, and ealier responses have basis to understand the later responses.

 

At another place you said:

 

“First of all this verse does not reffute our aqeedah of hazir nazir because indeed Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not from amongst the shahideen, witnesses, to these events because he was not born yet. His maqam e shahid was granted to him after his birth, after he was instructed to preach deen of Islam and after the verse of shahid was revealed. This verse does not refute our aqeedah of shahid at all. Secondly all these verses negate his being witness to the events while they were taking place. This means he can be witness to these events during his life time.”

 

And:

 

“We do not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was Shahid on previous Ummats before everything was shown to him, but we believe he was Shahid upon previous Ummats after he had made declaration of Prophethood and more specificly after the entire universe was shown to him of past present and future and through it he came to see all.”

 

لیکن مفتی احمد یار صاحب آپ سے اتفاق نہیں کرتے وہ جاالحق ص 129 پہ فرماتے ہیں

 

اس سے معلوم ہوا کہ حضور نے عالم ظہور میں جلوہ گری سے پہلے ہر ایک کے ایک ایک حالات کا مشاہدہ فرمایا۔

 

اور ص 135 پر سورہ قصص کی آیات 44،46 کے حوالے سے لکھتے ہیں

 

ان آیات میں فرمایا گیا کہ آپ بایں جسم پاک وہاں موجود نہ تھے ان میں یہ کہاں ہے کہ آپ ان واقعات کو ملاحظہ بھی نہیں فرما رہے تھے۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔اس واقعہ کی جگہ نہ تھے جسمانی لحاظ سے ہے عالم روحانی کی حیثیت سے حضور علیہ اسلام ہر رسول کی رسالت اور آدم علیہ اسلام سے لیکر آپ کے جسمانی ظہور تک تمام واقعات پر حاضر ہیں۔

 

 

First let me adress my own statements. The verse of the Quran states: “O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] On the basis of this verse was Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a Shahid before his birth or apointed on the station of Shahid after him anouncing his Prophethood? Is is not obvious that I had adressed the Bashari/Jismani aspect of his being Shahid? And as a bashr he was not Shahid upon anything before his birth. It is not obvious that the verse of Quran is stating Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) We the Rabb have sent you as a human being to be hearing, seeing type of Shahid to mankind; to inform them of good news of pleasures of paradise and warn about the punishment of hell? What I have written is in specific context of: “O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] and in the context of hadhir nadhir jismani/bashri. You attempted to refute hadhir nadhir jismani/bashri with verses: "You was not on the Western side when We decreed the Commission to Moses, nor was you amongst witnesses (of those events).” [Ref: 28:44] and: “But We raised up (new) generations, and long were the ages that passed over them; but thou wast not a dweller among the people of Madyan, rehearsing Our Signs to them; but it is We Who send apostles (with inspiration).” [Ref: 28:45] And how can these verses be evidence against Hadhir Nadhir bashri/jismani? You explain to me please. These verses are negating his hadhir nadhir jismani/bashri. They do not negate his mushayda e ghayb noorani/roohani prior to his birth and before him being apointed on station of shahid bashri/jismani rather they negate him being shahid bashri at these events. And I have quoted the mufassireen who have interpreted these verses indicating that despite the fact that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not jismani/bashri shahid upon these events he described and told of the events as if he knew them from observing them. And verses of Quran make it clear that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) directs the attention of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) to the events of past as if he has seen them.

 

Comming to statement of Mufti Sahib found in page 163:

 

:وہ جاالحق ص 129 پہ فرماتے ہیں

 

اس سے معلوم ہوا کہ حضور نے عالم ظہور میں جلوہ گری سے پہلے ہر ایک کے ایک ایک حالات کا مشاہدہ فرمایا۔

 

Lets get to the back ground of the above statement. Tafsir Roohul Biyan, Surah Fath, about verse of: inna arsalnaka shahidan mufti sahib quotes: “Because RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is the first creation of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) therefore he is witness of His One'ness and is watcher over all things which were created from the beginning; souls, beings, bodies, materials, nabatat (?), animals, angles, human etc, so that Allahs those secrets do not remain hidden for him which are possible for other creation.” He quotes further: “ Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) had observed the birth of Adam (alayhis salam), them being respected [with bowing of angles], and after mistake departing from paradise, then repentance being accepted, and all issues about them (i.e. Adam alayhis salam) that took place, Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw all of them. And birth of Iblees and what so ever happen to him also was seen by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). And in this context Mufti Sahib wrote: “From this we understand that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw every aspect of everyone's life [from beginning of creation until] before his arrival into the apparent [world].”[2] What I wrote was in the context of Shahid Bashri/Jismani and what mufti sahib wrote was in the context of mushayda of Rooh of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and mushayda of events in form of Noor e Muhammadi (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). These are two totally different subjects but related with each other hence there is no contradiction just your misunderstandng.

 

I recommend you read the footnote 2 before reading on. It will put into perspective what I am about to explain. Mufti Sahib on page 170 has implied that these events establish that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been observing the deeds but was not present in bashari or in jismani form:

 

ان آیات میں فرمایا گیا کہ آپ بایں جسم پاک وہاں موجود نہ تھے ان میں یہ کہاں ہے کہ آپ ان واقعات کو ملاحظہ بھی نہیں فرما رہے تھے۔

 

And to support his point of view he quotes Tafsir Sawi:

 

اس واقعہ کی جگہ نہ تھے جسمانی لحاظ سے ہے عالم روحانی کی حیثیت سے حضور علیہ اسلام ہر رسول کی رسالت اور آدم علیہ اسلام سے لیکر آپ کے جسمانی ظہور تک تمام واقعات پر حاضر ہیں۔

 

Here Mufti Sahib quoting Tafsir Sawi states: You was not at that incident is in jismani sense. In roohani sense Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was present on every Prophets Prophethood and was present over all incidents from Adam (alayhis salam) to jismani apearance of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). Now this establishes without doubt that aqeedah of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been observing the events from begninning of creation uptill his birth.[3] Also when he was sent as a Prophet in form of Bashr and granted station of Shahid bashri/jismani then he came to see everything:"[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it. He then placed HIS PALM between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] And Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) tested the mushayda alal ghayb of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): "He (i.e. Allah) said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? I said: Going on foot to join congregational prayers, sitting in the mosques after the prayers, performing ablution well despite difficulties. He again said: Then what do they contend? I said: In regard to the ranks. He said: What are these? I said: Providing of food, speaking gently, observing the prayer when the people are asleep. He again said to me: Beg (Your Lord) and say: O Allah, I beg of Thee (power) to do good deeds, ..." [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

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Before I come to your points I would like to share with you that at least we both agree on the following issues:

 

1: Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'salam is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.

 

2: Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spect of universe

 

3:Before his birth Prophet(saw) was not the witness to the events while they were taking place in previous ummats.

 

The subject has been jumbled between hadhir nadhir jismani/bashri and mushayda e ghayb roohani/noorani. And this happened because you have bought the statements of Jaa al Haq and compared what I wrote. I have written my statements in light of my short definition of hadhir nadhir as well as in light of specific sub-subject of hadhir nadhir (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is shahid on actions of Jinn and mankind). Where has Mufti sahib has written his statements in context of his comprehensive definition of hadhir nadhir as well as in light of general aqeedah of hadhir nadhir. Now I am having to put my statements in context of his definition of hadhir nadhir as well as explain to you how his statements are to be interpreted in context of his definition of hadhir nadhir and then make connection between his topic of hadhir nadhir and between my specific topic of hadhir nadhir to explain to you to where my statement fits. Yes this would be confusing to anyone and I even find it difficult to keep track of things at this moment. Since I have realised that you are taking my general statements generally even though they were written in a specific contex therefore it would be best to specify in what meaning I have stated and agreed with you.

 

First of all my definition of Shahid:

 

“Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid (i.e. witness) and a witness must posess two qualties; Hadhir (i.e. present phisically) as well as Nadhir (hearing, seeing). And without these qualities one can not be a truthful witness. Our belief is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef and Nadhir upon his Ummah. But soul is able to move as soul of Musa (alayhis salam) was able to move from place to place while keeping touch with the body of Musa (alayhis salam). Ability of Hadhir Nadhir is a mojzaati qudrat which is not only granted to Awliyah-Allah but to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as well, who is a perfection in being Nadhir and like of which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has granted angle of death.”[4]

 

Point 1: “Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'salam) is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] but bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.” is in meaning Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not hadhir every place with jism and in his bashri form. It was written considering the halool misconception found amongst opponents of Ahle Sunnat; and to explain that we do not believe halool of Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) with in creation of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) but rather we believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is hadhir jismani in one place (i.e. in his blessed resting place) but nadhir actions upon his Ummah.[5] Now if you combine these two statements the comprehensive aqeedah can be formulated which fully reflects what I believe: Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef [but] Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'salam) is not hazir every where [with his body or soul] and[Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam is]Nadhir upon his Ummah [and] bi'iznillah he can be hazir where ever he wants to.”

 

Point 2: “Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not Nazir on every spec of universe only nazir on actions of his [believing] Ummah, and [none-believing] previous Ummahs of previous Prophets.” has already been explained in the early part of the response.

 

Point 3:“Before his birth Prophet (saw) was not the witness to the events while they were taking place in previous ummats.” means: “Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not shahid bashri to the events while they were taking place.” If you had assumed that I meant Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not watching in Roohani/Noorani sense then I did not mean that. In the end I once again remind you to evaluate my position in light of my evidences presented and not based on generality of the language used by me.

 

Now come to your points briefly. You said

Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a seeing, hearing type of witness was this verse: "O Prophet! Truly We have sent you as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner." [Ref: 33:45] And this verse is the key which explains in which meaning Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be witnessing. And you have not commented or reffuted this. This verse explicitly establishes Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is seeing hearing type of witness.

اس آیت 33:45 میں فرمایا گیا ہے کہ ہم نے آپ علیہ السلام کو گواہی دینے والا بنا کر بھیجا ہے۔

اب سوال یہ ہے کہ کس چیز کی گواہی دینے کے لئے بھیجا؟

اگر تو مراد اس سے وہی گواہی ہے جس کا تذکرہ 2:143 اور 4:41 میں آیا ہے تو بات بالکل واضح ہے کہ آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم اپنی امت کی تصدیق کے لئے اس پر گواہی دیں گے۔

اور ان آیات کی نبوی تفسیر سے یہ بات واضح ہے کہ ہر شہادت کے لئے یہ ضروری نہیں کہ گواہ اور شاہد بچشم خود اصل واقعہ دیکھے اور معائنہ کرے بلکہ کسی ثقہ اور معتبر کے بتانے اور کسی معقول وجہ سے علم یقینی ہونے پر بھی شہادت اور گواہی دینی جائز ہے اور اس پر شہادت کا اطلاق درست ہے۔

 

You wrote, that in ayah 33:45 it is stated: [/color]“We have sent you (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as one who bears witness.” and this is clearly different from: “O Prophet, indeed We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” [Ref: Sahih International] infact different from a lot of the translations, Muhsin Khan:“O Prophet (MuhammadSAW )! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner,” Pickthall: “O Prophet! Lo! We have sent thee as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” Yusuf Ali: “O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and Warner,-” Shakir:“O Prophet! surely We have sent you as a witness, and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,” Hence your translation is against all the English translation known to me. And I am sure you can tell the difference between what your translation implies and what my translation implies.

 

First of all verse 33:45 is not specific about the witnessing on the day of judgement by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam). It is mutliq stating Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a Shahid. It is similar to me stating: I was sent as a witness to this convention by my brother, and it means I was sent to hear, see what is happening in convention. Now the events which Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a witness to were taking place on earth, and he was sent as a witness on earth upon his Ummah. Hence this verse is not about specific about the day of judgement. Had Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) intented to state that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is witness on the day of judgment only and not on earth then Allah would have stated similar to this verse: “One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring you as a witness against these (people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.” [Ref: 16:89] So this verse: O Prophet, indeed We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” is not especially about hereafter rather this verse explains in which meaning he will be witness in hearafter.

 

You have reffered to the hadith which states that Ummah will bear witness and Ummah will be questioned who told you they will say our Prophet (salllalahu alayhi was'sallam) has informed us. And on the basis of this you conclude that one can bear witness by being told by a reliable individual and in the context this would mean Ummah is bearing witness on account of what Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has told them because he is reliable, truthful. Lets even for sake of argument agree to this argument of yours. Would you like to quote me a single verse of the Quran or hadith which states that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will bear witness on account of him being told by someone reliable. In your argument Ummah is bearing witness upon being told and on basis of reliability of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) but on who has informed Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and on whos reliability is Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) bearing witness? You may reply; on being informed by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) and on reliability of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). Then I demand a verse, a hadith, which states Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will be bearing witness upon being informed by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) and on the reliability of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). You should know that in aqeedah there is no qiyas, no leap of faith, no ijtihad, definitive, explicit evidence is required and your argument hinges on qiyas; Ummah will be bearing witness upon being told, so will Prophet bear witness upon being told. Your this qiyas is against the verse of Quran which explicitly states O Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) we have sent you as a Shahid. And being sent as a Shahid implies hearing, seeing type of Shahid and not blind, deaf type of Shahid because if a Shahid was blind, deaf he cannot be Shahid. And Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a Shahid mutliq. Hence his witnessing on the day of judgement would be seeing, hearing type of witnessing. And verse 33:45 in reality is the key which explains in which meaning Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) will being bearing witness i.e. a Shahid who was sent as a hearing seeing type of Shahid.

 

آپ نے ابن کثیر کا حوالہ دیا کہ

“(as witness) means, a witness to Allah's Oneness, for there is no God except He, and a witness against mankind for their deeds on the Day of Resurrection.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 33:45]

تو عرض ہے کہ ابن کثیر کا مکمل حوالہ درج ذیل ہے اور اس میں انھوں نے جو استدلال کیا ہے وہ 2:143 سے کیا ہے جس کی وضاحت ہو چکی ہے کہ اس سے کیا مراد ہے۔

فقوله تعالى: { شَاهِداً } أي: لله بالوحدانية، وأنه لا إله غيره، وعلى الناس بأعمالهم يوم القيامة، وجئنا بك على هؤلاء شهيداً؛ كقوله:

{ لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَآءَ عَلَى ٱلنَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ ٱلرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا }

[البقرة: 143].

 

Ibn Kathir states:“as witness” means, a witness to Allah's Oneness, for there is no God except He, and a witness against mankind for their deeds on the Day of Resurrection.and We bring you as a witness against these people” (4:41). This is like the ayah: “that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger be a witness over you” (2:143)“and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner.” means, a bearer of glad tidings to the believers of a great reward, and a warner to the disbelievers of a great punishment.” I leave the rest for you and the readers to decide.

 

What ever else you have written refutes nothing of what we believe. None of them have actually denied the hearing, seeing witnessing of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and if there is a single mufasir who has written that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is shahid but not hearing seeing type shahid and his witnessing on the day of judgement would be in being informed by another please quote that. The mufassireen of Ahle Sunnat [i do not believe Ibn Kathir was[/color] from Ahle Sunnat rather he was a anthropomorphist] have explicitly have not denied the explicit meaning of verse 33:45 but they have used the implications of this verse (i.e. Prophet sallalahu alayhi was'sallam being hearing, seeing type of Shahid) to explain other verses. To keep discussion brief please only quote mufassireen which refute my position not which give another interpretation of a verse or explain a verse in context of another.

 

یہ دونوں آیات صرف منافقین کے حوالے سے ایک خاص پس منظرمیں ہیں جو کہ غزوہ تبوک سے غیر حاضر رہے تھے ان کے حوالے سے کہا جا رہا ہے کہ یہ بڑی معذرتیں کریں گے تو ان کو کہہ دو عمل کئے جاو آئندہ اللہ رسول اور مومنین تمہارا طرز عمل دیکھ لیں گے۔

آیت 105 میں تو مومونین کا ذکر بھی ہے تو کیا آپ کے استدلال سے سارے مومن بھی ہر ایک کے اعمال پر حاضر ناظر ہوں گے؟

 

This verse: “And Allah will observe your deeds, and [so will] His Messenger; then you will be taken back to the Knower of the unseen and the witnessed, and He will inform you of what you used to do." is specific in its context but also mutlaq in meaning. Meaning that it reffers to all the Muslims and not just the actions of munafiqeen. Ahadith substantiate this meaning: Narrated by Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalani, through Harith:My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and we talk to you, and my demise is also a great good for you (because) your deeds will be presented to me. If they are good, I will praise Allah, and if they are bad, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you. [Ref: Al-Matalib-ul-‘aliyah, 4: 22-3 3853] also another narration records similar meanings: “Bakr bin ‘Abdullah (رضي الله عنه) also reported that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: My life is a great good for you in whom you talk (to me) and you are responded. And when I will die my demise will be a great good for you. Your deeds will be presented to me, if I see goodness, I will praise Allah, and if I see wrongs, I will ask Allah’s forgiveness for you.” [Ref: Ibn Sa‘d, at-Tabaqat-ul-kubra (2: 194); ‘Ali bin Abu Bakr Haythami related in Majma‘-uz-zawa’id (9:24) and its men are those of saheeh (sound) hadith.] Ibn Kathir writes: “Imam Qurtubi writes, The angels present the actions of the Ummah to the Prophet [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] every single day. This is not correct, but the truth is that the actions of the Ummah are presented not every day but every Friday.” [Tafsir Ibn Kathir Surah Al-Nisa'a under verse 41] also there are ahadith which state seeing of actions by Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) on Friday and Thursday: Abu Huraira reported it as a marfu' hadith (and the words are): The deeds are presented on every Thursday and Friday and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. grants pardon to every person who does not associate anything with Allah except the person in whose (heart) there is rancour against his brother. It would be said: Put both of them off until they are reconciled. [Ref: Muslim, B32, H6223] Therefore this establishes that seeing the deeds is not specific to the actions of munafiqeen but ayaat is mutlaq written in a hisotrical context. Often a principle is mentioned or point of aqeedah is mentioned in historical context but this does not mean the principle and point of aqeedah is restricted to context in which it was revealed in.

 

This explains seeing of the deeds by Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is not specific to the context of the ayat but seeing is general for all Muslims. Also according to verse: “O Prophet, indeed We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” [Ref: 33:45] Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been sent as a hearing, seeing type of Shahid hence his seeing here in the ayaat is not restricted to the actions of munafiqeen of his time, living around him, but to all the mankind. And the verse 33:45 substantiates the understanding of the hadith quoted.

 

Now let me ask you question to point out the error of your methodology of understanding of Quran. Would you restrict the seeing of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to just seeing of actions of munafiqeen on the basis of this verse? Will you make taweel of all the verses which substantiate seeing of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) in the context of their revelation and limit the seeing of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to a time and place? And then negate Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) seeing every spec of universe? I doubt it, there you will not oppose the generality of the language even if the words are written in a specific context but a verse which illuminates the honors which Allah have bestowed on his beloved Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) you oppose and restrict its meaning to a specific time and place and group of people.

 

Comming to the Momineen the Awliyah e Kamileen ofcourse there is zahiri seeing of eyes, hearing of ears. But for Awliyah-Allah, the kamil Awliyah-Allah there is evidence that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) allows them to see the actions taking place which are out of bound of ordinary seeing. It is recorded in Hadith e qudsi: "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection, I will protect him; and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him." [Ref: Bukhari, B76, H509] Hence Awliyah-Allah possess karamati abilities and their seeing, hearing, travelling and granting, can be karamati in nature. Hazrat Umar (radiallah ta'ala) while delivering khutbah instructed Hadhrat Saariyah (radiallah ta'ala anhu) to move toward the mountain while he was in Madinah and the battle which he was looking at was taking place in Iraq. Hence seeing of Muslims, and seeing of Momineen is established.

 

 

My brother you remembered what Saeed Sahib wrote but if I recall correctly I did inform you ealier that a Guadian,Watcher, must be present, hearing, seeing, able to walk, talk and able to help, protect. So the difference of translation makes no difference to the actual point. So this point of yours strenths my position even more.

 

ان آیات میں لفظ تر دیکھنے کے معنوں میں استعمال نہیں ہو اس لئے آپ کا استدلال درست نہیں ۔ آئیے دیکھتے ہیں کہ الم تر کن معنوں میں استعمال ہوا ہے۔

 

First of all use of a word in a particular meaning in one verse does not nessciate the same word will be used in same meaning in another verse. Sometime the context and for whom the word is used for alters the meanings. Let me illustrate my point. The word Shahid has been used for Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) in verse: O Prophet, indeed We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” [Ref: Sahih International 33:45] and the same word Shahid has been used for Allah (subhana wa ta'ala): “Him to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth! And Allah is witness to all things.” [Ref: 85:9]. Are these words used in same meaning with same implications? Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as a creation of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) with shape, form, dimentions, in time as well as space, and essence of his being witness is in meaning of seeing with eyes, hearing with ears. Can we attribute all this detail to Allah (subaha wa ta'ala) in His being Shahid; a jism, a shape, a form, seeing, hearing being dependant upon creation like eyes and ears? Also the verses of Quran establish that alam tara has been used for incidents which Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw, heard with his own eyes and ears as well as which the Sahabah also saw, heard: “Have you not turned you vision to those who have been given a portion of the Book? They are invited to the Book of Allah, to settle their dispute, but a party of them Turn back and decline (The arbitration).” [Ref: 3:23] In the historical context the meaning of this verse was literal but one reading it at this moment in time, at the present, the implications are not literal.[6] Rather in present context the one who wants to take lesson from this verse of Quran can read it as: “Have you not turned your vision [to Qur'anic evidences about] those who have been given a portion of the Book? They are invited to the Book of Allah, to settle their dispute, but a party of them Turn back and decline (The arbitration).” This simple exercise establishes that a word can be used in many meanings and depending upon for whom the word is used and in which context the word is used meaning changes. When a believer is adressed or the medium of the verse is believer then such verses remind him of his seeing of evidences with his own eyes which detail the events in Quran and hadith.

 

Now a simple point which will put your quotes in perspective. There are two perspectives on the use of alam tara, one; when the verse is interpreted in relation to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) then alam tara will be interpreted in its literal meaning because vision of past events infact seeing of everything of past, present, future was established with ahadith of Tirmidhi which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) showed him after the ilaan e nabuwat. When the verse using alam tara is interpreted in relation to others then it will be interprted, understood in light of evidences.

 

My first evidence (i.e. 3:23) established the use of alam tara in literal meaning i.e. seeing with eyes and not in another meaning. The purpose was to establish that alam tara can be used in literal meaning and not in its figurative meaning as well as to prove that when alam tara are used for Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) they are in their literal meaning. The second evidence (i.e. 105:1) established the possibility of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being aware of incident which only took place few years before his birth and certainly he would have heard the accounts of the events from his elders. My last and finale evidence (i.e. 89:6) refers to a incident which took place long before the birth of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and if incident which he had not heard from anyone.

 

You will only contest probaly the point which states Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw the past events. In the light of hadith of Tirmadhi the seeing of past events has been firmly established in shahid bashri form. The issue of how Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) delt with nation of Prophat A'ad (alayhis salam); there are two interpretations of this and both are valid. One, in the light of seeing of everything established from ahadith of Tirhmadhi and one seeing via knowledge. And purpose of this verse was to not to question the seeing but to reinstate the idea that you had seen the incident but now recall what you had seen.

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You may argue that; Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) did not see because the verses of Quran narrate the historical events which Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has read himself. Hence the seeing of evidences of past events is being reminded and not seeing of actual vision with eyes. My response is; Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was sent as a Shahid mutlaq: O Prophet, indeed We have sent you as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.” [Ref: Sahih International 33:45] “We have truly sent thee as a witness, as a bringer of Glad Tidings, and as a Warner:” [Ref: 48:8] and Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) did not restrict his seeing to affairs of his time or affairs taking place around him. The hadith of tirmadhi state: Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it.He then placed His palm between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad] "[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad] and this is proof that he was made witness to events of past. Hence he was not just sent as a Shahid bashri upon the present but upon the events of the past as well. Therefore the the mumtazi'at, the uniquesness of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam), in regarding these events is that he was hearing, seeing type of witness of these events. Where has the Jews, Christians and others were not actual witnesses to these events but their knowledge consisted of what they had read about these events in their books.

 

With regards to the tafasir you quoted. They have refuted nothing which I have established with evidences of Quran and hadith, nature of Quran is jawami al kalim (i.e. shortest expression bearing widest meaning) and the mufassireen have in light of this have interpreted these verses in light of their evidences without explicitly negating the interpretation which I have established with evidences. They did not state anything explicitly about aqeedah of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat because it was established fact and never contested. The munkireen of Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) hearing, seeing as Shahid only have come to existance in maybe past hundered years or so. And this fitna has gradually spread amongst the Muslim population by Wahhabis. When the fitna of those who deny the station of Shahid of RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) by disbelieving the qualities which make him Shahid (i.e. hearing, seeing, being present) then the scholars of Ahle Sunnat in subcontinent as well as all over where this fitna reached wrote books refuting it. It is trait of Islamic scholarship to write and refute any fitna when it emerges and history is evidence to this and this also happened when the maqam e shahid was denied for Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and ever since it has continued.

 

First of all this verse does not reffute our aqeedah of hazir nazir because indeed Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not from amongst the [bashri] shahideen, [human] witnesses, to these events because he was not born yet. His maqam e shahid [bashri] was granted to him after his birth, after he was instructed to preach deen of Islam and after the verse of shahid was revealed. This verse does not refute our aqeedah of shahid at all. Secondly all these verses negate his being witness to the events while they were taking place. This means he can be witness to these events during his life time [on earth as a bashri Prophet].

 

 

We do not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was Shahid [bashri] on previous Ummats before everything was shown to him, but we believe he was Shahid [bashri] upon previous Ummats after he had made declaration of Prophethood and more specificly after the entire universe was shown to him of past present and future and through it he came to see all.

 

جس طرح قرآن کی قطعی الدلالہ آیات سے ثابت ہے کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم پچھلی امتوں کے اعمال پر شاہد نہیں تھے لیکن آپ کا کہنا یہ ہے کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو اعلان نبوت کے بعد پچھلی تمام امتوں کے اعمال دکھا دیئے گئے تھے تو اس حوالے سے آپ بھی کوئی قطعی الدلالہ ثبوت بیان فرما دیں۔

 

I have inserted few words into the text in green to put into the context the of subject into its place. Bold & Underlined was based on this evidence:

 

Narrated AbdurRahman ibn A'ish: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: I saw my Lord, the Exalted and Glorious in the most beautiful form. He said: What do the Angels in the presence of Allah contend about? I said: Thou art the most aware of it.He then placed His palm between my shoulders and I felt its coldness in my chest and I came to know what was in the Heavens and the Earth. He recited: 'Thus did we show Ibrahim the kingdom of the Heavens and the Earth and it was so that he might have certainty.' (6:75)" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3245, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

"[...] Then I saw Him put his palms between my shoulder blades till I felt the coldness of his fingers between the two sides of my chest. Then everything was illuminated for me and I recognized everything. He said: Muhammad! I said: At Thy service, my Lord. He said: What do these high angels contend about? I said: In regard to expiations. He said: What are these? [...]" [Ref: Tirimdhi, Vol 5, Hadith No. 3246, Tafsir Surah S'ad]

 

Our aqeedah is also that before the birth of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw the events of universe in Roohani/Noorani sense but he was not witnessing those events as a bashr. This is established by the fact that first thing which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) created was the Noor of beloved Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and this Noor was seperated in parts and from this Noor everything within the universe was created. And he saw in Roohani/Noorani sense all that had happened and in this context some verses of the Quran state; “Did you (O Muhammad - peace be upon him) not see how your Lord dealt with 'Ad (people)?” [Ref: 89:6] Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation? [Ref: 14:19] Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And Allah knows well all that they do. [Ref: 24:41] Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them! [Ref: 31:20] "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, [Ref: 71:15] Didst thou not Turn by vision to those who abandoned their homes, though they were thousands (In number), for fear of death? Allah said to them: "Die": Then He restored them to life. For Allah is full of bounty to mankind, but Most of them are ungrateful. [Ref: 2:243] Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of Allah." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: … [Ref: 2:246] Turnest thou not thy sight towards those who were forbidden secret counsels yet revert to that which they were forbidden (to do)? And they hold secret counsels among themselves for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the Messenger. And when they come to thee, they salute thee, not as Allah salutes thee, (but in crooked ways): And they say to themselves, "Why does not Allah punish us for our words?" Enough for them is Hell: In it will they burn, and evil is that destination! [Ref: 58:8] All these verses prove that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) had seen these events taking place prior to his birth as bashr. And this can only be in context of Nooraniat of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) and in context of Rooh of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) watching everything taking place. You can read the related detail of this issue and its evidence and discussion of it in Makalaat e Kazmi, Volume 1, chapter; Wama arsalnaka illa rehmatal lil alameen.

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میرے بھائی اس میں قیاس کی کیا بات ہے صورت حال بالکل واضح ہے اگر آپ علیہ السلام کی زوجہ کا آپ کے متعلق حاضر ناظر کا عقیدہ ہوتا تو ان کو آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم سے یہ سوال پوچھنے کی ضرورت ہی نہیں تھی کہ آپ کو اس کی خبر کس نے دی؟

بھلا جس کے بارے میں حاضر ناظر کا عقیدہ ہو اس سے یہ پوچھنا کہ آپ کو اس کی خبر کس نے دی کوئی معنی رکھتا ہے؟

۔

آپ کی زوجہ کہ اس سوال کہ آپ کو کس نے اس کی خبر دی نے بات بالکل واضح کر دی ہے کہ ان زوجہ کو یہ یقین تھا کہ کسی نے آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو اس بات کی خبر دی ہے اور فطری طور پر ان زوجہ کا خیال ضرور اس طرف بھی گیا ہو گا کہ اس بات کی خبرتو صرف فلاں زوجہ کو ہے کہیں انھوں نے ہی تو آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو اس کی خبر نہیں دے دی؟

پھر ان آیات کے شروع کے الفاظ کہ اللہ نے نبی پر ظاہر فرما دیا اور آخر کے الفاظ کہ مجھے علیم و خبیر نے خبر دی ہے نے بالکل واضح کر دیا ہے کہ اس بات کی خبر آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو اللہ پاک کے بتانے سے ہی ہوئی۔

 

اس پر بھی غور فرمائیں کہ زوجہ کے سوال پر آپ فرماتے ہیں مجھے اللہ نے خبر دی ہے حالانکہ آپ کے عقیدے کے مطابق تو آپ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کو کہنا چاہئے تھا کہ تمہیں معلوم نہیں ہے کہ میں تو شاہد ہوں ، حاضر ناظر ہوں مجھے کس نے بتانا تھا۔۔

 

My brother adequet response was already given. The aspect which was not adressed before I will adress here. The station of Shahid when granted was not perfected in him yet it was gradual evolution to perfection. And until the perfection was achieved Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) did not know absolutely evrything, and did not see absolutely evrything hence he had to be informed of matters which he did not know via wahi. Note that just as knowledge of RasoolAllah (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) increased gradually his mujzati powers of related to his being Shahid increased gradually and when the deen was perfect so was his knowledge and his maqam e Shahid perfected with it because these are connected with deen. So prior to akmaliat of deen, and akmaliat of maqam e shahid, and akmaliat of his knowledge chances are Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) did not know/see everything. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) declares something before it happens. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) said Zalikal kitabu la raiba fi at a time when the Quran was not fully revealed yet. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states about all the Quran; including the parts which were revealed and parts which were to be revealed that in this entire Quran there is no doubt. Point is Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) declares something in advance which was to happen later. Quran was said to be la raiba fi including the parts which were not revealed yet but Allah knew they will be revealed therefore in advance their mention was made. Similarly Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) declared Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid but the akmaliat in being Shahid was to be achieved gradually and his being shahid was mentioned earlier.

 

Footnotes:

 

[1] Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari: Allah's Apostle said, "Name yourselves after me (by my name) but do not call (yourselves) by my Kuniya, for I am Al-Qasim (distributor), and I distribute among you Allah's blessings." This narration has also come on the authority of Anas that the ! Prophet said so." [Ref: Bukhari, B73, H216] Narrated Muawiya: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If Allah wants to do good to a person, He makes him comprehend the religion. I am just a distributor, but the grant is from Allah. (And remember) that this nation (true Muslims) will keep on following Allah's teachings strictly and they will not be harmed by any one going on a different path till Allah's order (Day of Judgment) is established." [Ref: Bukhari, B3, H71] Narrated Humaid: I heard Muawiya bin Abi Sufyan delivering a sermon. He said, "I heard the Prophet saying, "If Allah wants to do a favor to somebody, He bestows on him, the gift of understanding the Quran and Sunna. I am but a distributor, and Allah is the Giver. The state of this nation will remain good till the Hour is established, or till Allah's Order comes." [Ref: Bukhari, B92, H415]

 

[2] Just has my statements have to be understood in light of my evidences i.e. in the context of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being Shahid bashri, mufti sahibs statement has to be understood in light of his evidence and his context.This statement of Mufti Sahib: “From this we understand that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw every aspect of everyone's life before his arrival into the apparent [world].” has to be understood in the context of the evidence which Mufti Sahib used. Its literal reading contradicts the aqeedah of Ahle Sunnat as well as the evidence he used and contradicts his own position mentioned else where in the book. [Note, see footnote 3] The evidence which Mufti Sahib used establishes that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) has been observing in roohani/noorani sense the actions of every creation from beginning of the creation and it does not establish that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) had seen everything of the FUTURE before his birth. Hence the statement is to be understood in this way: “From this we understand that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw every aspect of everyone's life [from beginning of creation until] before his arrival into the apparent [world].”

 

[3] Now this quote: اس واقعہ کی جگہ نہ تھے جسمانی لحاظ سے ہے عالم روحانی کی حیثیت سے حضور علیہ اسلام ہر رسول کی رسالت اور آدم علیہ اسلام سے لیکر آپ کے جسمانی ظہور تک تمام واقعات پر حاضر ہیں۔

actually is in line with the understanding that Prophet (salllalahu alayhi was'sallam) was observing in aalam e Roohaniat/Nooraniat, from beginning of creation to his birth. And the statement is about: “From this we understand that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) saw every aspect of everyone's life [from beginning of creation until] before his arrival into the apparent [world].” has been clarified in this context and his this statement can be more specific in context of what is mentioned in his citation but I preffered simplicity for briefness.

 

[4] This was the actual definition of Hadhir Nadhir: “Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Shahid (i.e. witness) and a witness must posess two qualties; Hadhir (i.e. present phisically) as well as Nadhir (hearing, seeing). And without these qualities one can not be a truthful witness. Our belief is that Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) is Hadhir in his heavenly resting place in Madinah ash'shareef but soul is able to move as soul of Musa (alayhis salam) was able to move from place to place while keeping touch with the body of Musa (alayhis salam) and Nadhir upon his Ummah. Ability of Hadhir Nadhir is a mojzaati qudrat which is not only granted to Awliyah-Allah but to Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) as well, who is a perfection in being Nadhir and like of which Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has granted angle of death.” in my first post but I noticed that I had combined two sentences togather thus effecting the coherence of sentence therefore I have removed it from the middle and added it as next sentence. Note the meaning in actual quote and the restructred definition is exactly the same.

 

[5] There are two types of Ummah of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) believing Ummatis and non-believing Ummatis: “Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon hlmg) said: I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship;I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me. [Ref: Muslim B4, H1062]

 

[6] Quran is Zikrul lil alameen: “And no reward dost thou ask of them for this: it is no less than a message for all creatures.” [Ref: 12:104] hence those who want to take a lesson from verse of Quran in the present context can do so without negating the haqiqi meaning and affirm a meaning which befits readers reality.

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assalam u alaikum

one brother has sum objections on hadhir nadhir aqeeda and in reference

he gave me this ayat

[qasas 28:44] And you (O dear Prophet Mohammed-peace and blessings be upon him) were not on the western side of the Mount when We sent the command of Prophethood to Moosa, and u were not present.(yet you narrate the account very clearly to the Jews and Christians)

Edited by izhar ahmed

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brother Izhar Ahmed salam alayqum wr wb

 

Aaj subho meh Pakistan ja raha hoon is leyeh. mazeed kohi madad nahin ker sakoon ga. Wahhabiyoon Deobandiyoon kee taraf say joh ihtirazat hotay hen woh taqriban sab kay jawabat is discussion meh mojod hen. Thori mehnat ker kay aap ko talash kerna peren gay. jazakallah khair.

 

Ihtiraaz ka jawab yeh heh:

 

 

Note all these verses do not disprove the aqeedah of hazir nazir at all. Rather they have nothing to do with it. We do not believe Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was Shahid on previous Ummats before everything was shown to him, but we believe he was Shahid upon previous Ummats after he had made declaration of Prophethood and more specificly after the entire universe was shown to him of past present and future and through it he came to see all.

 

You have quoted: "You was not on the Western side when We decreed the Commission to Moses, nor was you amongst witnesses (of those events).” [Ref: 28:44] and: “But We raised up (new) generations, and long were the ages that passed over them; but thou wast not a dweller among the people of Madyan, rehearsing Our Signs to them; but it is We Who send apostles (with inspiration).” [Ref: 28:45] First of all this verse does not reffute our aqeedah of hazir nazir because indeed Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not from amongst the shahideen, witnesses, to these events because he was not born yet. His maqam e shahid was granted to him after his birth, after he was instructed to preach deen of Islam and after the verse of shahid was revealed. This verse does not refute our aqeedah of shahid at all. Secondly all these verses negate his being witness to the events while they were taking place. This means he can be witness to these events during his life time.

 

Let me explain the verse, the purpose of revelation of this verse is not to negate the knowledge of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) but to point out to the Jews that even though he was not shahid to the even of Musa (aalayhis salam) he has explained to you these events as he was present to the event and this is supported by: “Allah points out the proof of the prophethood of Muhammad , whereby he told others about matters of the past, and spoke about them as if he were hearing and seeing them for himself. But he was an illiterate man who could not read books, and he grew up among a people who knew nothing of such things.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 28:44] and the two Jalal's explain the verse similarly: “And you were not, O Muhammad (s), on the western side, of the mountain, the valley, or the spot, [to the west] of Moses at the time of the communion, when We decreed, revealed, to Moses the commandment, to deliver the Message to Pharaoh and his people, nor were you among the witnesses, to this, to know it and inform of it;” [Ref: Tafsir Al Jalalayn, 28:44] Also the interpretation of the next verse 45 by mufassireen is so categorically clear in favour of ahle sunnat: “but We brought forth generations, communities, after Moses, and life was prolonged in their case, in other words, they lived long lives and so they forgot the covenants [made with God], knowledge disappeared and revelation ceased. Then We brought you as Messenger and revealed to you the story of Moses and others. And you were not a dweller, a resident, among the people of Midian reciting to them Our revelations (tatlū ‘alayhim āyātinā, a second predicate [after thāwiyan, ‘dweller’), to know their story and inform of it; but truly We are the senders, of you [as Messenger] and [the senders] to you of the stories of former generations.”[Ref: Tafsir Al Jalalayn, 28:45] The Tafsir need bit explaination the point is Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not a man from people of Midian that he would know what had happened in the past. Rather he came to know of the story of Midian via revelation and on the basis of his he has informed the people what transpired in Midian. Ibn Abbas (radiallah ta'ala anh) is supposed to have interpreted the verse in fallowing words: “(But We brought forth) We created (generations) generation after generation, and explained the event of the former to the latter, just as We explained it to you, (and their lives dragged on for them) their lives were prolonged, and when they did not believe We destroyed them. (And thou wast not) O Muhammad (a dweller in Midian, reciting unto them Our revelations) reciting the Qur'an to your people, (but We kept sending (messengers to men)) to past generations and exposited to them the events of those who preceded them just as We explained the events of the people of old to you.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Abbas, 28:45] This establishes that even though Prophet (sallalahu alahi was'sallam) was actual witness to the events nor it him who gave the revelation of Allah to people of Midian yet being a Ummi Prophet who has not learnt anything of any religion yet he knows in detail the events that took place via revelation of Quran. And this is the proof of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) being a true Prophet that he knows of events of past, present, and the future events to unfold.

 

Even the Mushrikeen of Makkah knew Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not present in the time of Musa alayhis salam or Isa alayhis salam or Shu'yaib alayhis salam hence there was no reason for Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to say you was not witness to this and this and that, apart from the reason that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) wanted to make them realise that he is truly receiving wahi from Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). They knew he was not learnt, they were reminded that he wasnt witness to these events, no one has claimed that Prophet Muhammed (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was taught the knowledge of previous nations by him, the unmatched beauty of Quran, the mojzaat of Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) with all these facts they should be able to come to conclusion that he is not learnt, he wasnt witness to these events, yet he knows the full details of them, this means he is receiving guidance from Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). The purpose of these verses not to negate his knowledge of these events but to negate his witnessing of these events and to establish his Prophethood.

 

Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: “We do relate unto thee the most beautiful of stories, in that We reveal to thee this (portion of the) Qur'an: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.” [Ref: 12:3] and these stories were narrated in all over the Quran of evens that had taken place before Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam): “Thus do We relate to thee some stories of what happened before: for We have sent thee a Message from Our own Presence.” [Ref: 20:99] These stories were revealed via Wahi as part of Quran: “Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen, which We reveal by inspiration unto thee; nor wast thou (present) with them then when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots.” [Ref: 12:102] No Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not with them but yet he knew of their plan because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) informed him of it. “This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point). [Ref: 3:44] Nor was he witness to the events of when they cast lots to about who would look after Maryam (alayhis salam) but he did knew what had transpired. And that was because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) states: “This is of the news of the Unseen which We reveal unto you ; neither you nor your people knew it before this. So, be patient. Surely, the (good) end is for those who have Taqwa.” [Ref: 11:49] So Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) revealed to him about incidents which Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) was not aware of nor were the Arabs before him yet the revelation of Quran narrates these incidences and Prophet (sallalahu alayhi was'sallam) narrates the incidents of past nations. This was done because Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) wishes to remove the rijs from tayyib, meaning the falsehood around the lives of Prophets and to do that he chooses our Prophet (sallalahu aalyhi was'sallam) whom He reveals these stories of ghayb: “Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messenger. (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.” [Ref: 3:179]

Edited by MuhammedAli

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