MuhammedAli

Tarana e Deoband: Fail qaum e Loot Nanotavi karay, hem ham Qasim Ul gand walay Ham ko ghalazat say piyar heh, hen ham Deoband walay, Nah ham ko sharm o haya heh, ham jhoot o nanga walay Ham bachoon ki salwar utaren, hen ham Deoband walay, Gustakhi hamari shaan heh, kaam hamaray oot patang walay, Aqeeda hamara ka gadday ki uzuu jesa, hen ham Deoband walay Daway hamaray uchi ur'ran jesi, patang walay, Hamaray dalail par kia kahoon, hen ham Deoband walay. Hussam O Pir Sahib par ham jhoot banden, kartoot dang karnay walay Keecha taani, chori zori, takfir banahen, hen ham deoband walay. Bazoo hamaray larki jesay, patli kamr, nazuk ang walay Azmaya heh ham nay khaaq inko, hen ham Deoband walay. Uqabir kay rang mein hen rangay hen ham gali galoch gand walay Daj'jal mein Daj'jaal ham say peechay, hen ham Deoband walay. Bhai kay sar par peshab karay, Ismail Dehalvi, gandi tarang walay. Gustakh ham Nabiyoon waliyoon kay, tab banay hen ham Deoband walay. Ala Hadhrat kay Sher par ihtiraz karay, lanat muj pay, hen gandi umang walay. Abdul Qadir ki aakhir say risalat shurun huwi, na-samj hen ham Deoband walay. Mirza Ghulam Qadir Beg Musalman, jhoot ham pehlahen Darbangi walay Jhoot hamari Hinduwun ki si bhajan, keun nah issay ham gahen Deoband walay. Hamara uqabir Thanvi heh, Qasim Nanotavi kay ham-palang walay. Nanotavi hath pheray, Thanvi sharma-hay, ham hen Deobandi walay. Musalmanun say mansub karen apnoon kay kartutun ko, joh thay gandi sang walay Deobandiyat ki taleem ka namoona hoon mein, gand hen ham Deoband walay. Tawaifoon kay Pir hamaray uqabir, champa bhai'n kay nang ko dekhnay walay. Sari tawaifoon ko jantay thay, esay thay Pir hamaray Deoband walay. Kufr say ham sharmatay nahin, gustakhi kay ham chaman walay Kufrun ko dictionariyoon mein okay bana denh ham Deoband walay Hamaray peshwa mar gahay, mar mittay matti mein milnay walay Qabr mein jism salamat tab, gar hotay Sunni ham Deoband walay. wala taqulu ra'ina wa qulun zurna samaj na pahay la-parwa fikr o danish walay Phir uqabir kesay kafir na hoon, woh thay qarn e kufr aur hen ham Deoband walay. Haram heh zuban jis mein ho shayba e towheen, kartoot yeh Yahood kay pasand walay. Misdaq azaab e aleem hen, kon hamen jahannum say nikalay, ham hen Deoband walay. Ayat e ra'ina say khaq meeli hamari tawilen phir bi jazba buland walay Tang man, sang dill, bey fikr o khauf e khuda, kafir, ham Deoband walay. Towheen taqwiyat mein nahin phir tehreef keun kartay karnay walay kufr ki parda poshi heh, Kufr kay parda posh hen ham Deoband walay. Agosh e lehad mein ja sohay Allah kay Nabi, kehtay hen seedhi rah walay Yeh thee aur heh sirat e mustaqeem, Kufr ki rah par hen ham Deoband walay. Haq likh kar kufr ko, un-zurna ka seedha rah dekhaya, Mushtaq nazir th'ani walay. Haq mantay nahin, ziddi, hat-dharm, beqoof, apnay hi dushman ham Deoband walay. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khariji karen takfir e aksiriat (majority), parh Taqwiyat kay bab awal walay. Tha Khariji Shah Ismail Dehalvi, hen Khariji takfeeri ham Deoband walay. Luzum o iltizam e kufr kay hen yeh chakkar, chakra gahay chakranay walay Yazeed jesa likha, Musalman na Kafir, na samaj pahay ham Deoband walay Takfir nah ki, mohtat thay woh, Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Bareilly Walay, Dehalvi ki toba mashoor, acha zan Bareily ka, is ba-ghayr ham Deoband walay. Hussam e haq thi saif e haramayn, ihtiyat samja gahay Raza Bareily Walay. Hotay Dehalvi jesay, takfiri machine gun, Kafir hotay ham sab Deoband walay. Dehalvi ki Kufriat ka bataya, nah hukm kufr lagaya, bewaqoof bey-aqal walay. Kufr ko kufr kehna takfir e sahib e kufr nahin shumul kufr ham Deoband walay Joh Kufrun ka muhafiz ho, juraim us kay sahib e kufr walay Baghayr jaiz waja kay hen kafir, muhafiz e kufr ham deoband walay.

Tarana e Deoband: Fail qaum e Loot Nanotavi karay, hem ham Qasim Ul gand walay Ham ko ghalazat say piyar heh, hen ham Deoband walay, Nah ham ko sharm o haya heh, ham jhoot o nanga walay Ham bachoon ki salwar utaren, hen ham Deoband walay, Gustakhi hamari shaan heh, kaam hamaray oot patang walay, Aqeeda hamara ka gadday ki uzuu jesa, hen ham Deoband walay Daway hamaray uchi ur'ran jesi, patang walay, Hamaray dalail par kia kahoon, hen ham Deoband walay. Hussam O Pir Sahib par ham jhoot banden, kartoot dang karnay walay Keecha taani, chori zori, takfir banahen, hen ham deoband walay. Bazoo hamaray larki jesay, patli kamr, nazuk ang walay Azmaya heh ham nay khaaq inko, hen ham Deoband walay. Uqabir kay rang mein hen rangay hen ham gali galoch gand walay Daj'jal mein Daj'jaal ham say peechay, hen ham Deoband walay. Bhai kay sar par peshab karay, Ismail Dehalvi, gandi tarang walay. Gustakh ham Nabiyoon waliyoon kay, tab banay hen ham Deoband walay. Ala Hadhrat kay Sher par ihtiraz karay, lanat muj pay, hen gandi umang walay. Abdul Qadir ki aakhir say risalat shurun huwi, na-samj hen ham Deoband walay. Mirza Ghulam Qadir Beg Musalman, jhoot ham pehlahen Darbangi walay Jhoot hamari Hinduwun ki si bhajan, keun nah issay ham gahen Deoband walay. Hamara uqabir Thanvi heh, Qasim Nanotavi kay ham-palang walay. Nanotavi hath pheray, Thanvi sharma-hay, ham hen Deobandi walay. Musalmanun say mansub karen apnoon kay kartutun ko, joh thay gandi sang walay Deobandiyat ki taleem ka namoona hoon mein, gand hen ham Deoband walay. Tawaifoon kay Pir hamaray uqabir, champa bhai'n kay nang ko dekhnay walay. Sari tawaifoon ko jantay thay, esay thay Pir hamaray Deoband walay. Kufr say ham sharmatay nahin, gustakhi kay ham chaman walay Kufrun ko dictionariyoon mein okay bana denh ham Deoband walay ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hamaray peshwa mar gahay, mar mittay matti mein milnay walay Qabr mein jism salamat tab, gar hotay Sunni ham Deoband walay. wala taqulu ra'ina wa qulun zurna samaj na pahay la-parwa fikr o danish walay Phir uqabir kesay kafir na hoon, woh thay qarn e kufr aur hen ham Deoband walay. Haram heh zuban jis mein ho shayba e towheen, kartoot yeh Yahood kay pasand walay. Misdaq azaab e aleem hen, kon hamen jahannum say nikalay, ham hen Deoband walay. Ayat e ra'ina say khaq meeli hamari tawilen phir bi jazba buland walay Tang man, sang dill, bey fikr o khauf e khuda, kafir, ham Deoband walay. Towheen taqwiyat mein nahin phir tehreef keun kartay karnay walay kufr ki parda poshi heh, Kufr kay parda posh hen ham Deoband walay. Agosh e lehad mein ja sohay Allah kay Nabi, kehtay hen seedhi rah walay Yeh thee aur heh sirat e mustaqeem, Kufr ki rah par hen ham Deoband walay. Haq likh kar kufr ko, un-zurna ka seedha rah dekhaya, Mushtaq nazir th'ani walay. Haq mantay nahin, ziddi, hat-dharm, beqoof, apnay hi dushman ham Deoband walay. Muhammed Ali Razavi.

Kufr say ham sharmatay nahin, gustakhi kay ham chaman walay Kufrun ko dictionariyoon mein okay bana denh ham Deoband walay

73 - Answering Question, Why Not Than Invoke Him Who Benefits/Harms: Sunni: “Wahhabi: Who do you believe created the universe and earth? Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) or those whom you call for help in Istighathah? Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Wahhabi: IF Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) wished a harm or a benefit can they remove any harm from your, or deprive you of a benefit intended for you by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Sunni: No. Wahhabi: Why not than invoke Him who can benefit/harm as He pleases and the One who cannot be stopped? Sunni: …” Sunni: You asked: “Why not than invoke Him who can benefit/harm as He pleases and the One who cannot be stopped?” There is no reason to not to invoke Him who created us and who we believe is our One and the Only Ilah. Wahhabi: IF there is no reason not to invoke Him than why do you invoke others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Sunni: You will have to be patience and let me complete my response. Wahhabi: You paused so I thought you were done. Sunni: I was wrestling what your question and its insinuations. Your question is like: Will you stop beating your wife? IF one says yes/no, regardless of answer in both ways he is guilty of spouse violence. Sunni: IF I answered saying Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) permitted Istighathah and Tawassul than it would have been a reason to not to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because that is how you have phrased your question. We both know there is no reason to not to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) but this does not mean there is no justification to seek another’s help. Wahhabi: You’re behaving like fish out of water meaning even after being caught won’t give up the struggle. Smile. Sunni: I am still very much in my comfort zone. Sunni: As I understand you have made assumption that because there is no reason to seek help of anyone but Him hence we have no permission to seek help from anyone but Him. I need to correct this misunderstanding. I will have to recontextualize what you said to demonstrate the point I am attempting to make. Sunni: “Gloom: IF Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) wished a harm or a benefit can that medicine remove intended harm from you? Or can that medicine deprive you of a benefit intended for you by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Doom: No. Gloom: Why not than invoke Him who can cure as He pleases and the One who cannot be stopped?" Sunni: IF Doom said seeking cure through medicine is Prophetic Sunnah that is why we should seek cure through medicine. Do you think it would be valid reason not to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to cure you/me? There is no valid reason to not to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to cure us but that does not mean there is NO justification in Quran/Sunnah to seek cure through medicine. So even though there is no reason/justification to not to invoke Him to cure us but also there is justification to seek cure through medicine. Wahhabi: Good. I got line of your argument and what you’re intending to say. Sunni: There is no reason to not to invoke Him but the Ahadith of slaves of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and other Ahadith/Ayaat are justification for taking His creation as Wasilah to Him. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says seek Wasilah to Him and in another verse instructs the believers to ask Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) to seek forgiveness on behalf of sinners: “O you who have attained to faith! Fear Allah and seek means (Wasilah of getting closer to Him) and strive hard in His cause so that you might be successful.” [Ref: 5:35] “And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, and asked forgiveness of Allah and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.” [Ref: 4:64] Wahhabi: These verses are not proof of Istighathah because Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) was alive. Sunni: I wasn’t trying to justify Istighathah with these verses. I am refuting the argument that because we can directly ask Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) therefore we have no justification to ask others. These verses establish that even though sinners could directly ask Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to forgive sins yet this does not amount to prohibition of seeking Wasilah/means. Instead the Wasilah is instructed by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in Quran. Give me ten minutes and I will be back. Sunni: “Gloom: IF Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) wished that you commit sins. Or wanted to forgive sins can anyone prevent Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Doom: No. Gloom: Does Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) hear, see, know all happenings in the universes? Doom: Yes. Gloom: Does not Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) not have the authority to forgive sins? Doom: He does. Gloom: Can anyone persuade Him to forgive sins against His wishes? Doom: No. Gloom: Is Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) not close to our jugular vein? Doom: He is indeed. Gloom: Why not than directly invoke Him to forgive our sins? Why ask others to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) IF He has ability to all-hear/see/know and not can persuade Him to forgive sins against His will?" Sunni: Has this reasoning invalidated Wasilah taught in the above verses and established that companions of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) had no right to ask Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) to seek forgiveness on their behalf? Wahhabi: … 74 - Reasoning Which Prevents What Is Permitted Is Heretical: Sunni: It was a question directed toward you. Wahhabi: No. It cannot abrogate text of Quran. Sunni: Does this type of logical reasoning prove only way to gain His mercy is invoking Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) directly? Wahhabi: Yes but … Sunni: Is this type of logical reasoning which takes away from an aspect of Islamic teaching heretical or not? Wahhabi: Heretical IF there is textual evidence in support of something. Sunni: Everything Mubah/permissible does not have textual support. Principle is anything which is not declared Haram, Kufr, Shirk, and sin is all allowed meaning Mubah. In this light I ask: What IF it prohibits what is permissible in light of Shari’ah and there is no proof whatsoever proving it is Haram/Shirk/Kufr? Wahhabi: It would be heretical. Sunni: Fear Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and tell: Have you substantiated Istighathah is Shirk, or Kufr, or Haram based on principles established and demonstrated from Quran/Sunnah? I am not asking on basis of principles used by Wahhabis to judge Istighathah but on basis of what is evident from Quran/Sunnah. Wahhabi: I have proven it is Shirk and Haram. Sunni: Brother you believe it is Shirk and Haram but you have not substantiated your claim. You believe based on your principles Istighathah is Shirk and I say to you in your sect’s methodology maybe but not in accordance with teaching of Quran/Sunnah. Your methodology and principles on which you judge Shirk of Istighathah have absolutely no basis in Quran and Sunnah. Until you establish your principles of determining Tawheed/Shirk from Quran and Sunnah you have not proven anything but other than what you believe. In contrast my principles are established and cannot be denied by you or anyone other than you. Wahhabi: What are your principles on which you judge Shirk? Sunni: Shirk is ascribing Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah to creation in inferior, equal, or in greater capacity than believed for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Or ascribing attributes of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to His creation in meanings which are uniquely reserved for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is the Living but I am living and so are human, Jinn, angels, animals, plants, and birds. We share many attributes with Him but not in meanings which is uniquely reserved for Him. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is the Living from eternity past but we are were created by Him and given life years ago hence there is no Shirk. Sunni: Do you agree with what I have stated here? Wahhabi: I don’t see any issue with what you said. Sunni: This is how Shirk is judged according to Quran and Sunnah so I will ask you once again: Have you substantiated Istighathah is Shirk, or Kufr, or Haram based on principles established and demonstrated from Quran/Sunnah? Wahhabi: Not according to methodology you have stated. Sunni: You have proven it is Shirk according to your own methodology but your methodology has no support from Quran/Sunnah. Your methodology has no support from Quran and Sunnah. IF I recall correctly you said you will prove your methodology [in section 52] and you also said you don’t know evidences for your methodology [at the end of section 7] when you was pressed to support your principles with evidences. Keep this in mind and I ask once again. Sunni: Have you substantiated Istighathah is Shirk, or Kufr, or Haram based on principles established and demonstrated from Quran/Sunnah? Wahhabi: … Sunni: I take your silence as proof of admission that you have failed to substantiate Istighathah is Shirk, Kufr, or Haram in general or Haram due to Shirk/Kufr. To declare something Haram due to Shirk and Kufr when in reality it is permissible is heretical and an evil act. [He did not respond and in the next session told me he had to leave in emergency but we all can see what happened and why he left so suddenly. Next week I directed discussion to another topic because I wanted to take heat out of discussion.] 75 - Answering Question, How Are The Muslims Different From Mushrikeen: Sunni: Let us go back to Tafsir of verse Q39:38 [in section 72 of this article]. Do you have any objections to that Tafsir? Wahhabi: No. Sunni: Any objection to principle that major Shirk is warranted through ascribing Ilahiyyah to creation? Wahhabi: No. Sunni: Any objection to principle that creed of Ilahiyyah and intention of worship come together to make an action worship? Wahhabi: No. Sunni: Do you have any objections against notion that all [major] Shirk in Quran and Hadith is connected with people ascribing Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah to idols and due to directing acts of worship to these invented idol-Ilahs? Wahhabi: Actually I do have objection because Quran is evidence that people committed Shirk because they ascribed Prophets, angels and others has sons and daughters of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Another thing none of the Mushrikeen committed Shirk in Rububiyyah Sunni: Thanks. You’re wrong with regards to Tawheed al-Rububiyyah of Mushrikeen but I will rephrase it anyway. Wahhabi: There is clear evidence proving Mushrikeen did not commit Shirk in Rububiyyah. Sunni: That is what you think. Wahhabi: There are clear verses in Quran. I can quote you evidences IF you want me to. Sunni: No I don’t because it is not the right time. Please don’t mind. Wahhabi: No harm. I will e-mail the evidences IF that is good with you? Sunni: … Sunni: Do you agree that all the verses you quoted about beside-Allah were about idols-Ilahs of Mushrikeen and their invocations directed toward idol-Ilahs? Wahhabi: Yes. Where are you heading with this? Sunni: Do you have any objections against notion that all [major] Shirk in Quran and Hadith is connected with people ascribing Ilahiyyah to various creations He created and due to directing acts of worship to these invented idol-Ilahs? Wahhabi: No. Sunni: What was cause of Shirk in and Kufr in creed and actions of Mushrikeen: (i) Was it that they invoked idols? (ii) Or was it that they invoked in worship idols who they believed as their Ilahs? Wahhabi: What is the difference between the two questions? To me both are asking the same thing. Sunni: They are not. In the first action is performed in absence of Ilahiyyah and Niyyah. In the second action is built on and performed on basis of Ilahiyyah and Niyyah. Wahhabi: I would say yes to both of them. Sunni: No. Not what you would say. Which out of the two has support of Quran and Sunnah? Wahhabi: I said both of them. Sunni: What you mean both of them? Evidences you quoted clearly are about idol-Ilahs of Mushrikeen which they invoked with intention of worship. How can you say both when only one of them [the second] is only possible in light of demonstrated evidences! Wahhabi: … Sunni: I must repeat again my question: What was cause of Shirk in and Kufr in creed and action of Mushrikeen: (i) Was it that they invoked idols? (ii) Or was it that they invoked in worship idols who they believed as their Ilahs? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Obvious answer is that according to Quran and Sunnah Shirk which Mushrikeen were guilty of was because of their creed and intention of worship in actions. There is no denial Istighathah is performed by people without ascribing creed of Ilahiyyah to creation and without intention of worship. In order for you to prove Istighathah is Shirk and Haram therefore you must prove it is Shirk even when no Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah was ascribed to creation and establish Istighathah is act of worship in absence of creed and intention of worship. 76 - Technical/Shar’ri Usage Of Min Du’nillah And Wahhabis: Wahhabi: Shirk is calling beside-Allah and Istighathah is calling beside-Allah. Sunni: Non-Ilah are not beside-Allah because the phrase Min Du’nillah and related are technical terms referring to idol-Ilahs and every Ilah in general. Hence Istighathah is not calling beside-Allah and not worship. Wahhabi: This is what you have said not what Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has said and I believe in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and His Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). Sunni: Are you using applying the verses upon Muslims based on technical usage of Min Du’nillah, or on linguistic usage. Wahhabi: Technical usage. In same sense as it is used in Quran. I mean Shar’ri usage. Sunni: No you don’t use technical usage. Sunni: In technical sense of Quran phrase Min Du’nillah in general used for all things and beings believed to be Ilah partners of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in some capacity. There is not a single usage of Min Du’nillah or its related terms denoting same meaning where it is used for non-Ilah. All the verses Salafis quote against Istighathah all of them use words Min Du’nillah about Ilahs of Mushrikeen once ambiguity is removed. Sunni: Salafis either use Min Du’nillah verses against Istighathah on basis of linguistic meaning. IF not than you have innovated called-to help-dead are Min Du’nillah and have made this part of Shar’ri meaning of Min Du’nillah. This is very highly likely but it is an innovation because in Quran there is no proof for Min Du’nillah and related being used for deceased in absence of Ilahiyyah. Where there is no mention of Ilahiyyah it is to be understood because other verses remove the ambiguity and help to understand that Min Du’nillah are Ilahs of Mushrikeen. Wahhabi: I will research the matter but that is a very bold claim. IF there is evidence supporting understanding that called-to-help-dead are Min Du’nillah would that justify usage of verses for subject Istighathah and those who practice it? Sunni: IF words Min Du’nillah are used for called-to-help-dead/living and caller does not believe called-t-help-dead/living to be an Ilah than I will retract my statement about usage of Min Du’nillah being ONLY for Ilahs of Mushrikeen. And that would justify usage of Min Du’nillah and related in meaning verses on subject of Istighathah and those who practice it. Wahhabi: Brilliant. Sunni: IF you do not find any such evidence or you present me evidence thinking it supports your position but I establish one’s said to be Min Du’nillah are actually Ilahs of Mushrikeen than you will acknowledge: (i) You’ve and Salafis in general distort the meaning proper application words Min Du’nillah hence guilty of innovation. (ii) You had no right to apply verses of Min Du’nillah upon Muslims and use them in context of Istighathah. (iii) You will repent from and admit that you and Salafi-kind are upon Khariji Minhaj in relation to application of Ayaat revealed for disbelievers upon Muslims. Sunni: I want blood after your attempt. Wahhabi: I thought you were giving me license to murder you without consequences. Smile. Sunni: Smile. Do your research well and check Tafasir before you approach me. Wahhabi: I don’t like that you have raised the stakes this high. No deal. This is a gamble and I am not gambling my Iman. I have to walk away but I will still pursue the subject to prove you wrong. Sunni: Do your research and share with me what you discover. We can leave the deal. Wahhabi: I need to go. 77 - Kharijis Applying Verses Revealed For Kafirs Upon Muslims: Sunni: You quoted various verses [in sections 60, 62, and 65] to prove Istighathah is Shirk therefore Haram and I explained and demonstrated each verse is about Mushrikeen invoking their idol-Ilahs and referrence to Min Du’nillah is referrence to idol-Ilahs of Mushrikeen. And previously when I asked you that IF you have any objections of explanations I have provided you said that you have none. Wahhabi: You didn’t ask me about all it was regarding a specific verse. Sunni: I am sure it was about all of them but even IF it was just about specific verse [in section 75] than no issue. I will rephrase. Sunni: All evidences you quoted were as mentioned above i.e. about Mushrikeen, and referrence of Min Du’nillah was about their idol-Ilahs. Issue is that you cannot apply upon Muslims verses revealed for disbelievers and IF you engage in this practice than you’re from Khawarij: "And the statement of Allah: 'Allah will not mislead a people after He has guided them, until He makes clear to them what to avoid.' (9:115) And Ibn Umar used to consider them (the Khawarij and the Mulhidun) the worst of Allah's creatures and said: "These people took some verses that had been revealed concerning the disbelievers and interpreted them as describing the believers.” [Ref: Bukhari, Book 88, Book Apostates, Chapter 6, Killing Khawarij and Mulhideen, here, scribd here.] This establishes you and Salafism is upon Khariji methodology. Wahhabi: We need to discuss meaning of this tradition in our next meeting. Sunni: There is no ambiguity in its meaning it is very clear in what it records. Wahhabi: … 78 - Which, Why Kharijis Applied Verses On Muslims And Connection With Wahhabis: Wahhabi: Salam Alaykum. Sunni: Wa Alaykum Salam. Wahhabi: Last Sunday I wanted to discuss meaning of Hadith; Khawarij applying verses revealed regarding disbelievers upon Muslims. Sunni: You did but I don’t see anything which needs discussion. Wahhabi: You quoted this Hadith once before and I did some investigation with regards to context of statement and who the Khawarij were. Khawarij applied the verses revealed about fighting disbelievers, taking their property as loot, capturing and enslaving of the combatants, not eating slaughter of Mushrikeen, verses prohibiting Mushrikeen to being Carer of Masajid, verses prohibiting marriage with Mushrikeen women/men, and verses prohibiting seeking forgiveness for deceased Mushrikeen family members. Khawarij applied all such verses upon companions. This is the historical context in which Ibn Umar (radiallah ta’ala anhu) made his statement. They did not apply verses against companions which we employ to refute Istighathah and those engage in it. You’re in reality distorting Ibn Umar’s (radiallah ta’ala anhu) statement by not mentioning the context. Sunni: You’re absolutely correct that this is how Khawarij behaved but you’re ignoring why were they applying all such verses upon companions/Muslims to begin with. What happened historically and what did the Khawarij conclude regarding creed of Companions which led them to apply all such verses upon Muslims/Momineen? Don’t answer it. Sunni: Arbitration between Ali (radiallah ta’ala anhu) and Mu’awiyah (radiallah ta’ala anhu) provided the Khawarij pretext to accuse Companions of committing Shirk because both warring parties agreed on arbitration. Khawarij rebelled at the pretext saying both sides have taken creation as judge hence committed major Shirk and to justify their claim they quoted, judgement is only for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). The charge of Shirk is same. The difference between you and those Kharijis is the pretext on which you charged Muslims of committing major Shirk. They said you the Companions have given right of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to creation because of arbitration. You the Salafis argue that you the Muslims have given right of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to creation because of Istighathah. Those Khawarij accused the companions of setting up rivals unto Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and you accuse us of the same. Where is the difference between you and those Khawarij? Don’t answer it yet. You will have your chance. Let me tell you now and you can tell me later. The only difference is grounds on which you and they declared Muslims as Mushrikeen. 79 - Establishing There Is No Difference Between How And Why Of Both Kharijism: Sunni: Am I a Mushrik? Wahhabi: I wouldn’t say you’re Mushrik but will say you’re guilty of Shirk. Wahhabi: You’re about the change the direction of discussion and I won’t get chance to respond to you. Sunni: I am not changing direction. I will respond to what you said earlier but I need confirmation before I continue. Wahhabi: OK! Sunni: IF I die upon my current would I die a Mushrik? Wahhabi: Technically speaking yes but there could be a valid excuse for you. Meaning Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) may accept your Shahadatayn on some grounds. Sunni: You said Khawarij applied all these verses upon the best of Muslims. My question to you is that are you Wahhabi any different than Kharijis? Let Shaykh al-Najd Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab answer this himself. He writes: “Allah's Messenger came to a people who differed in their object of worship; some worshiped the Angels while others worshiped the Prophets and pious, also there were those who worshiped stones and trees and some worshiped the sun and the moon, but the Prophet did not differentiate between them. The proof is the Saying of Allah, "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (i.e., Shirk) until the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone." (8:39)” [Ref: Qawa’id al-Arba, Page 7, here.] Shaykh al-Najd said Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) made no distinction between any Mushrik instead he treated them all same and in accordance with revealed Shari’ah. And according to Shaykh al-Najd he has no precedence in Sunnah to treat me and the Sunnis any different from how Mushrikeen were treated by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) and how Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) treated Mushrikeen in Quran. Sunni: Blood of Muslim is Haram. Shaykh al-Najd permitted slaying of Muslims on grounds that they are Mushrikeen and Kafireen. Sunni: He wrote: “It is absolutely amazing! And more amazing is tat despite their (people of Biddah) reading this story in the books of Tafsir and Hadith, along with their understandings of its meaning, and knowing about the obstruction that Allah has put between them and their hearts, they believed that the deeds of the people of Nuh (i.e. over praising the dead and memorializing their graves with statues) is the best type of worship. They believed in what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden which is the disbelief (Kufr) that permits the taking of life and wealth.” [Ref: Kitab al-Tawheed, Chapter 19, Page 80, Important IOChapter Number 14] How did he legalize killing us without applying the verses revealed for disbelievers upon believers? You may might distinction how you treat me and Sunnis like me but Shaykh al-Najd made no distinction between us and the Mushrikeen which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) encountered. In principle Wahhabism is not any different from those Khawarij who applied every single verse of Mushrikeen upon Companions/Momineen. In practice you may have some differences but in principle there is no difference whatsoever. Sunni: IF you could would you perform my Salat ul-Janazah and invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to forgive me? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Would you eat meat of an animal slaughtered by me with, in the name of Allah. Allahu Akbar? Wahhabi: I would because it is slaughtered correctly. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says about Mushrikeen: “O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their (final) year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.” [Ref: 9:28] So you would eat my slaughter even though I am guilty of major Shirk and impure/unclean? Wahhabi: … Sunni: No insult intended brother. Would you marry your sister or daughter to one who is guilty of major Shirk of Istighathah like me? I am sorry IF this has caused offence but it needed to be asked. Wahhabi: I will not agree to such marriage. Sunni: Why? Wahhabi: You already know the answer brother Ali. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has said: “O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: If you ascertain that they are believers then send them not back to the unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the unbelievers, nor are the (unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower) and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them.” [Ref: 60:10] We both know the disbelievers in this verse are Mushrikeen. Is your refusal based on the belief person would be upon major Shirk, Mushrik, and Kafir? Wahhabi: … Sunni: I will conclude my point now. There is really no difference between how the Khawarij applied verses upon Companions and how you Wahhabis apply upon us. You base your Fiqh rulings against us are based on verses revealed about Mushrikeen as IF these verses were revealed about us. And this is what the Khawarij did in regards to companions. The only difference is that grounds on which they declared companions as Mushrikeen and you declare us Mushrikeen are different. As a result both Khariji groups employ verses which they believed/believe are related to and justify charge of Shirk. Wahhabi: Brother this is wrong because we have not prevented you from Hajj and entering Masjid al-Haram. Sunni: Wahhabi principle, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not make distinction between Mushrikeen and therefore we will not because he did not, speaks for itself volumes. The reason Wahhabis did not prevent Muslims practicing Hajj is because Hijaz was under rule of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah so you could not prevent us. When you did get control the original Wahhabi zealots were dead. It was third and fourth generation of Wahhabis and Ibn Saud had become diluted in his Wahhabism. Another reason which is more likely is that Wahhabis allowed Hajj because preventing Sunnis would have brought war to Arabia. Anyhow that is all speculation the truth is your principle is make no distinction between Mushrikeen and deal with them as Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) instructed and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) demonstrated in his Sunnah. Hence in conclusion there is no difference how those Kharijis applied verses and how you Kharijis apply verses upon Muslims. Sunni: You can respond to whatever you like. Wahhabi: There is no need to respond to anything but I will say that Kharijis had no valid reason to denounce the best of Ummah as Mushrikeen and Kafireen i.e. Companions. Against you Sufis we have valid grounds because you worship others-beside Allah. There exists Shar’ri justification to apply verses of Shirk revealed for earlier Mushrikeen upon Mushrikeen of latter times who’s Shirk resembles Shirk of earlier ones. Sunni: It is your claim that we engage in Shirk and that we are Mushrikeen which you have not substantiated in light of Quran and Sunnah. Wahhabi: We would have to agree to disagree. 80 - Challenging Erroneous Notion Prostration Is Shirk Like Istighathah: Sunni: I apologize but I need to side-track [from where we left off yesterday]. Sunni: You stated prostration was prohibited because it was Shirk in our Shari’ah to prostrate to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala😞 “It is Haram because it is Shirk like prostration to other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Haram and Shirk in our Shari’ah.” Is there any evidence to suggest that it was prohibited because it was Shirk in Shari’ah of RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) to prostrate to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Wahhabi: It was prohibited obviously because prostration of respect may lead to Shirk. Sunni: It may lead to Shirk is not ground for arguing prostration of respect/honour performed for other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Shirk. Sunni: Its prohibition is valid basis to argue that the commoners could be misguided hence it could have become a mean to worship of others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala), leading to Shirk. Wahhabi: It [the prohibition] is [related to] blocking means to Shirk. Sunni: This is not what you have said earlier. I quoted you word for word. Wahhabi: What do you believe about prostration to creation then? Sunni: I believe prostration with respect to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) was prohibited because it was means to misguidance therefore it was declared Haram. And it was not declared Haram because of the reason which you gave i.e. that prostration performed to creation warranted Shirk. Wahhabi: On basis of what have you arrived at this position? Sunni: Sajdah is of two types, worship and respect. Prostration of worship for creation was prohibited in every Shari’ah of Prophets including in ours. Prostration of respect was not prohibited in our Shari’ah and eventually it was prohibited because it could have become source of misguidance for commoners. Wahhabi: That is my point. In Islam after prostration of respect was abrogated then only prostration of worship remained hence every prostration performed is considered worship. Sunni: Islam abrogated and prohibited the prostration of respect but it did not prohibit the intention of respect neither did Islam state from now on every prostration is of worship. Yes the person performs Haram action but his Haram action is with Halal intention of respect. You can’t judge the Haram action to be Shirk even when the intention is Halal i.e. respect. Haram action with Haram intention, i.e. of worship, is Shirk. Our Shari’ah recognises that prostration of respect is not Shirk. Qur’an gives examples in context of Prophet Yusuf (alayhis salam), Prophet Yaqub (alayhis salam), and angels prostrating to Prophet Adam: “And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the Jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.” [Ref: 18:50] “And he raised his parents high on the throne and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! This is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) ...” [Ref: 12:100] Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) states that He narrates old stories so the people of understanding learn lessons from them. We learn prostration of respect was not Shirk and to say it is Shirk is to distort Qur’anic teaching. In conclusion Islam/Quran does recognise that prostration of respect is not Shirk. Wahhabi: Brother IF something was prohibited then how does Islam accept it? It’s abrogated. Sunni: Prohibition of prostration of respect is established and agreed by both of us. You have to understand that abrogation of prostration of respect does not mean suddenly it has become Shirk. Even though prohibition of action is established yet this prohibition cannot and should not lead to conclusion that every prostration is of worship. Intoxicants are Haram including alcohol. Does that lead to conclusion it is also Shirk? I repeat once again Islam has prohibited the action alone. It has not declared performing of prostration of respect as an act of Shirk. IF someone performs this action than we refer to Qur’an and come to conclusion that it is not Shirk. Than we refer to Sunnah and come to conclusion it is Haram. [There was no agreement on this and after both of repeating the same points in different ways I just gave up. Instead I suggested we move to discussing permissibility and impermissibility of Istighathah.] 81 – Evidence Establishing Permissibility Of Istighathah: Sunni: How do you establish permissibility of a practice and action in your Hanbali Madhab? Wahhabi: I do not follow a Madhab. I am upon Minhaj of Ahlul Hadith. IF it is Sunnah of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam), or practice is found in his companions, or two succeeding generation. I said: I was looking for some principles but your answer is fine for what it is worth. IF you recall I referenced you some Ahadith [in section 59] about Haram and Halal. It was stated in them, issues on which Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has remained silent are excused as favour by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) so we should accept His favour. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) stated: “O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing” [Ref: 5:101] Prohibition of questioning about them was because then injunction regarding will be revealed making it Halal, Haram, Fardh … and this would make life difficult for Muslims. And in context of this Ayah Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said, on which Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) remained silent were excused/permitted due to His favour/mercy: “What Allah has made lawful in His Book is halal and what He has forbidden is haram, and that concerning which He is silent is allowed as His favour. So accept from Allah His favour, for Allah is not forgetful of anything. He then recited, "And thy Lord is not forgetful." [Ref: Musnad Al Bazzar] “It was narrated that Salman Al-Farisi said: “The Messenger of Allah was asked about ghee, cheese and wild donkeys. He said: ‘What is lawful is that which Allah has permitted, in His Book and what is unlawful is that which Allah has forbidden in His Book. What He remained silent about is what is pardoned.’” [Ref: Ibn Majah, B29, H3367] Sunan Darqutni contains a Hadith in which it is stated: “Allah has prescribed certain obligations for you, so do not neglect them; He has defined certain limits, so do not transgress them; He has prohibited certain things do not do them; and He has kept silent concerning about other things out of mercy for you, and not because of forgetfulness, so do not ask questions concerning them.” [Ref: Sunan Darqutni] Sunni: Based on these Ahadith it would be correct to argue that Istighathah is permitted because neither Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) nor Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) prohibited it. Wahhabi: These Ahadith refer to food items not the practices of worship. Sunni: Does not Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) prohibit Zina? Did He not forbid lying and murdering unjustly, murder of minors, theft, interest on loans, marriage of a Mahram with another Mahram, consumption of Khanzir, drinking of blood, and dead animals? Did not Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) prohibit associating of partners with Him, seeking of help from idols/gods, worship of idol/gods, dedicating of crops for their idols/gods? Wahhabi: I seek refuge in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) from accursed Iblees. Sunni: La Hawla Wala Quwwata il’la Billah … Sunni: Iblees and me? When you’re part of sect which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) described as Qarn ash-Shaytan i.e. horde of Iblees. Wahhabi: I was checking Hadith. That was a bit surprising development. It was not directed toward you because … Wahhabi: … Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in numerous Ayaat has stated that forgetfulness is from Iblees so I sought refuge from him in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). I had forgotten [that there are many types of Haram] and what you stated reminded me. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) prohibited so many things and so many practices. Yet He did not forbid Istighathah, nor He forgot about it, nor was He unaware of future. He left it untouched and this is proof it is permissible. 82 - Evidence Mutashabihaat Against Impermissibility Of Istighathah: Wahhabi: There is Hadith in Sahih of Imam Bukhari, which states between Halal (i.e. lawful) and Haram (i.e. unlawful) are Mutashabihaat (i.e. ambiguous) and one falls into doubtful has fallen into unlawful: “What is lawful is evident and what is unlawful is evident, and in between them are the things doubtful which many people do not know. So he who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his animals round a reserve will soon pasture them in it. [Ref: Muslim, B10, H3882, here.] Based on this Hadith Istighathah is Haram. Sunni: First of all there is issue with translation in my understanding the words should be, and one who engages in doubtful will engage in unlawful. According to your translation the person has already fallen into Haram by engaging in doubtful. Logically speaking IF a doubtful is Haram then why is it termed doubtful? They should be under the category of Haram. As I understand it matter is that engaging in doubtful without concern for falling into Haram will eventually lead to Haram. Sunni: In addition to this according to you Istighathah is an issue of major Shirk therefore Haram. Here you are arguing it is Haram because it is from Mutashabihaat i.e. ambiguous, or doubtful. This is a contradiction. Presupposing you have changed your position and now you believe it is a doubtful matter. [IF the translation is correct which is unlikely but we suppose it is] then doubtful matters are Haram but can doubtful be major Shirk? Don’t answer it. IF Istighathah is clear Shirk than it is not doubtful and IF it is doubtful then it is not Shirk. You can’t have it both ways. Sunni: Moving on. You have argued that Istighathah is Haram due to it being doubtful. IF I concede the point [Istighathah is Haram because it is from Mutashabihaat] even than you would failed to prove it is Shirk. What remains behind is your understanding that it is Haram and my understanding that it is permissible. Sunni: IF your translation is correct [which I am very doubtful of because it contradicts common sense] then your position that Istighathah is Haram would be valid in my judgment or at least for you. And I certify permissibility of Istighathah based on the Ahadith I quoted. Wahhabi: Translation is absolutely correct but you’re just refusing to accept the truth. Sunni: Brother I don’t know Arabic but I have a very functional brain. Wahhabi: How do you know then? Sunni: I have read the entire Hadith and contemplated over it that’s how. Wahhabi: I have read this Hadith as well. Sunni: I don’t think you have read the entire Hadith but IF you have and you still argue translation is correct than it can only be because you’re being deceptive, or you’re empty in your head. Sorry I insulted you. Wahhabi: Insult and apology came together hardly a lapse. Sunni: It wasn’t a lapse I intended both. Wahhabi: Smiles. Sunni: Read the Hadith from beginning to end. Wahhabi: Give me a minute or two. Sunni: The translation is not correct because the example employed in Hadith states shepherd grazing flock near a reserve eventually will have sheep grazing in the reserve implication of which is one who engages in Mutashabihaat will eventually fall into Haram but the translation says he has fallen into Haram. Sunni: You referenced this Hadith from Bukhari it is not in Bukhari there is another Hadith, here. Wahhabi: Sorry. This Hadith isn’t from Bukhari. It is actually from Muslim, here. I was struggling to find it for the same reason. Sunni: Did you read what I wrote explaining why I believe the translation is wrong. Wahhabi: You make a good point but I will not disregard the translation due to what you said until someone reliable says translation is wrong. Sunni: I have demonstrated why logically the translation cannot be correct and through prophetic example demonstrated why it cannot be correct translation. What you’re asking me is above my pay grade. I suggest you ask members of popular Islamic-Awakening forum about the translation. [In my judgment issue of Istighathah is between permissibility VS. impermissibility VS. Doubtful is of Ijtihad but Ghulu i.e. extremism by Kharijis has made this issue a matter of Tawheed and Shirk. It should be noted that afterwards I checked number of Urdu and English translations of Hadith and it is confirmed that the translation is wrong, here, here, here, and here.] 83 – Explaining Hadith Of And Demonstrating What Are Mutashabihaat: Wahhabi: In yesterday’s discussion you said Istighathah is permissible me but Haram for you IF the translation of Hadith is valid. How can that be? This is contradiction don’t you think? Sunni: You’re correct. My thinking is that I rather have you be guilty of innovation than Takfir which invalidates Islam. Wahhabi: To prevent Takfir which I don’t make you decided to change the verdict regarding it and declared it Halal for yourself and declared it Haram for me. In Islam there is no such a thing as Haram me but Halal for you. Sunni: There is Halal for me but Haram for you. Wahhabi: You lost me completely. Sunni: It is Haram for you to marry your wives sister and Halal for me to marry her. In context of Istighathah there is no such thing as Halal for me and Haram for you. Wahhabi: Smiles. You have contradiction. Sunni: Reality is brother yesterday I wasn’t prepared to deal with your evidence. I didn’t get time to think about meaning of Hadith. Wahhabi: You had 24 hours to think about meaning of Hadith in context of Istighathah so I would expect you have better understanding of Hadith. Sunni: I was wrong Istighathah is not from practices which are Mutashabihaat so it is not Haram for you even IF translation is correct. Wahhabi: Are you admitting you made an error in judgment? Sunni: I am embarrassed that I have made mistake but I will rectify it since you bought it up. This will involve properly understanding Hadith. Do I have liberty to explain Hadith? Wahhabi: Nothing too long but short and to the point. Sunni: What are Mutashabihaat? How do we determine IF something is from Mutashabihaat? Wahhabi: Wasn’t you suppose to answer these questions? Sunni: Rhetorical statements. Wahhabi: There is nothing online which is related to this Hadith apart from content related to Mutashabihaat verses of Quran. Sunni: Mutashabihaat are things are connected with Haram. Credit Card is from Mutashabihaat. Having it eventually lead to using it and paying interest. Associating with prostitutes is not Haram but Zina is. Staying in company of prostitutes will eventually lead one to Zina. Mutashabihaat are things which are connected with Haram and which could lead to Haram but means which are not Haram. TV is amongst the Mutashabihaat. Eventually it would lead one to watch Ghayr-Mahram and in some cases worse such as pornography. Wahhabi: That is an interesting observation [about how to determine Mutashabihaat] and explanation but on what have you based your explanation? Sunni: On the Hadith you quoted. Wahhabi: How? Sunni: You have to infer some aspects to clearly understand the Hadith. Wahhabi: Like? Sunni: I have looked after grazing animals in Pakistan when I was younger. There was always a place where we were not permitted to graze cow/sheep. Slight mismanagement which was inevitable because would play games and those sheep would enter pasture which was Haram for them in linguistic sense. And the owner would come charging and verbally chastise us like how Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) will for entering Haram. I understand the Hadith from experience and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) used that example because he was also charged with looking after sheep/camels when he was young. I quote Hadith with what I believe is correct translation: “What is lawful is evident and what is unlawful is evident, and in between them are the things doubtful which many people do not know. So he who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things will indulge in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his animals round a reserve will soon pasture them in it. [Ref: Muslim, B10, H3882, here.] The Hadith gives example of a pasture/reserve which is no-go-area for sheep i.e. Haram for people. Just like sheep who linger around the no-go-area will eventually stray into no-go-area and graze in it the Muslims who linger around Haram will eventually be persuaded by Shaytan to engage in Haram. In short Mutashabihaat is an area outside of pasture, no-go-area, Haram-Zone but close enough that heedlessness will lead to engaging in Haram. TV, Credit Cards, and many other things which could lead to Haram therefore all are from amongst Mutashabihaat: “So he who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless.” Wahhabi: Good explanation brother Ali. 84 - Istighathah Is Not Amongst The Mutashabihaat And Not Haram: Sunni: You attempted to declare Istighathah Haram through route of Mutashabihaat. It has been established that Mutashabihaat are those things which are connected with Haram and lead to engaging in Haram. IF Istighathah is Haram than it is not part of Mutashabihaat and IF it is related to Mutashabihaat than it is not Haram. Wahhabi: Brother there is no solid reason to believe Istighathah is not amongst those things which are Mutashabihaat. Is it? Sunni: I will respond to that in a bit. Sunni: Istighathah is not Haram because no clear evidence stating it is Haram. IF it was from amongst Mutashabihaat then it is permitted/Mubah but requires extreme care to avoid falling into Haram i.e. Shirk, Kufr due to worship of creation. Hence you have no reason to declare it Haram, Shirk, and Kufr. Instead it is Halal as long as we do not enter the Haram aspect of it such as engaging in Istighathah with creed that one asked for help is an Ilah/Rabb and deserves to be worshipped. Wahhabi: What are you basing permissibility on? Sunni: It is Mubah/allowed because silence of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) on something is sign of His mercy and permission. I have already quoted Ahadith in support of this. Wahhabi: There is no reason to not to believe Istighathah is not out of Mutashabihaat. Sunni: There is a reason. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) gave example of shepherd and his sheep straying into a pasture which they are not allowed to graze in. Sheep stray into no-go-pasture always happened due to negligence. IF it happened due to negligence than Shirk in Istighathah cannot happen due to negligence but requires conscious decision to believe a creation as an Ilah than call to help with intention of worship. Change of creed and intention both of these require conscious decision to adopt Shirk and worship. Whereas Mutashabihaat are those things which inadvertently lead to engaging in Haram. You may not intend to deal in interest/usury but you used the Credit card with assumption you will pay it before interest kicks in but you’re dismissed from job and you cannot pay the money as needed and you’re forced to pay interest. This Hadith is talking about unintentionally falling into Haram. One cannot fall into Shirk due to Istighathah because Shirk requires change of creed and worship requires intention. Sheep stray into no-go-area always due to negligence for whatever reason and Shirk in Istighathah cannot be warranted due to negligence. Wahhabi: Can it not be that shepherd is tempted by Shaytan to graze the sheep in no-go-zone? Sunni: The natural meaning/understanding is unintentional but I cannot deny deliberate is possible as well but my point still stands. IF a man deliberately chooses to indulge in Haram such as believes in an Ilah beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and consciously decides to worship others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) than he is out of Islam. And only Istighathah is not what could inspire someone to Shirk but Tawaf around Kabah could as well and IF it did Tawaf still wouldn’t be Mutashabih practice but person would be out of Islam. Sunni: What you’re saying is Istighathah is Mutashabih because it may inspire practitioner to willingly knowingly adopt Shirki creed that XMan is Ilah and practice Istighathah with intention of worship. It is absolutely possible that someone could be inspired to practice Istighathah with this creed and intention but I still don’t believe Istighathah is a Mutashabih practice. Wahhabi: Can you please conclude your point because I need to leave. Sunni: Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said one who grazes his sheep near a no-go-zone will eventually end up grazing them deliberately. Or will find the sheep grazing in the pasture due to his negligence: “What is lawful is evident and what is unlawful is evident, and in between them are the things doubtful which many people do not know. So he who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things will indulge in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his animals round a reserve will soon pasture them in it. [Ref: Muslim, B10, H3882, here.] In other words engaging in Mutashabihaat has a very high chance almost 100% that one engaged in them will engage in Haram. Sunni: I have seen people practice Istighathah and mostly these people are commoners with little knowledge of Islam. I have questioned them, you call for help with intention of worship and do you believe one you calling for help is an Ilah/Rabb? There hasn’t been a single instance where someone has responded affirmatively. How can Istighathah be from Mutashabihaat when it doesn’t lead to Shirk? And I am talking about commoners who have bare minimum knowledge of Tawheed, about Prophet-hood and Fiqh related to Wudhu, and Salah. IF these commoners have protected Tawheed and their Islam from Shirk than there is no chance amongst the educated Sunnis. Wahhabi: This is where we have to disagree. Istighathah has always led people to commit major Shirk so it is from Mutashabihaat which we should avoid. Sunni: That is because you do not judge Tawheed/Shirk based on what Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) revealed instead you judge Tawheed/Shirk based on Wahi received by Shaykh al-Najd. Tawheed/Shirk is determined on basis of affirmation of Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah and Ibadah is judged on creed and intention of worship. Wahhabi: We judge according to principles which we received from Salaf who knew Quran and Sunnah better than you and all the Sufis. Sunni: Prove your principles have been passed on by Salaf as-Saliheen. It is a challenge. Do you accept it? Wahhabi: … Sunni: I will continue with my response … Sunni: You said Istighathah is Mutashabih practice which means by itself Istighathah is not Shirk but it becomes Shirk when Haram joins it. That is a contradiction and a non-sense. According to words of Hadith a Mutashabih leads to a Haram which is clearly and explicitly stated in Quran and Sunnah as Haram. What you’re saying is Mutashabih becomes Haram. How can it be Mutashabih and Shirk? IF it is Shirk than it is not Mutashabih practice. Sunni: In the Hadith, Mutashabih equals Istighathah and Haram equals Shirk? Wahhabi: … Sunni: What is lawful is evident and what is unlawful is evident, and in between them are the things doubtful such as Istighathah. So he who guards against doubtful things like Istighathah keeps his religion and honour blameless. He who indulges in doubtful like Istighathah will indulge in fact in unlawful things such as major Shirk. What this Hadith means is that one who engages in a Mutashabih practice will leave it for a Haram practice. Which IF you pay attention you will realize that Istighathah is not Shirk but person would leave it for a Shirk. Sunni: In conclusion I want to say that Istighathah is not Mutashabih practice to begin with but IF you insist it is than you have to accept it is not Shirk and person leaves Istighathah for a practice which is Shirk. And I have already stated to leave Istighathah which we practice for Shirk the practitioner must affirm Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah one whom he calls for help and has intention to worship while calling for help. Hence you did not establish Istighathah is Shirk. [Wahhabi brother left without responding to anything and I did not pursue the subject thereafter because there was no real answer to points I raised.] 85 - Ijtihad Of A Mujtahid Regarding Deceased Awliyah-Allah Helping: Sunni: Sorry to dig old graves. Few weeks ago in one of our sessions we discussed [in section 55] IF phrase servants of Allah includes deceased Awliyah or not? Do you recall? Wahhabi: I can’t recall but … Sunni: Something came to my mind while writing up that portion of our discussion so I thought I bring it up to benefit from your knowledge. Wahhabi: This is your wise way of milking advantage. Smiles. Sunni: What IF a Mujaddid/Mujtahid has understood the phrase servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to be inclusive of deceased Awliyah and seeking of help from them as permissible? Will he be guilty of Shirk? And those who follow his Ijtihad will they be guilty of major Shirk also? Wahhabi: None from the Mujtahideen have stated this. Sunni: Imam Ahmad Raza (rahimullah alayhi ta’ala) was the Mujaddid of 14th century. Amongst different types of Mujtahideen his Maqam/rank is of Mujtahid Fil Masail. Some have stated he is Mujtahid Fil Madhab. Out of seven ranks of Mujtahideen, he is upon the 5th i.e. Mujtahid Fil Masail and there is agreement amongst Ahlus Sunnah. Dispute is over his one level higher (i.e. Mujtahid Fil Madhab). His status amongst Muhaditheen is of Hujjat ul-Hadith which is one lower from the highest. Sunni: He has published books on every aspect every field of religion, Tafsir, Asool Tafsir, Hadith, Shuruhaat, Grammar, Logic, Philosophy, Algebra, Astronomy, Physics, Maths, Biology, Knot Theory, and list goes on totalling some 1200/1500 books. His Fatawah Razawiyyah is published in 30 volumes. What is the big deal you would ask? He spent 40 years answering to and resolving problems faced by scholars of his era. Fatawah Razawiyyah is compilation of Fatawah of his last ten years. Thirty years before that nothing was saved. Had he saved all the Fatawah it would have been the most comprehensive collection of Fatawah likely touching 150 plus volumes. And then we come to who was seeking clarifications and answers from Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (alayhi rahma). A browse through the list of names of people who referred to him will reveal vast majority, over 90% of Fatawah are in response to major scholars of his time. Sunni: This Imam has stated phrase slaves of Allah is inclusive of Awliyah living and deceased, angels and Jinn, and has stated it is permissible to seek help from deceased Awliyah with belief that the aid in Haqiqi terms will come from Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Wahhabi: He is not a Mujtahid, nor Mujaddid only Ahlul Biddah claim this therefore it is of no value. Sunni: Consensus is not of whole Ummah but of majority. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) stated follow the majority. And majority is in agreement of his Maqam as Mujaddid and Mujtahid. Wahhabi: The Hadith you are basing this on is Weak. Sunni: It is corroborated by Sahih Hadith: “It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that the messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One who found in his Amir something which he disliked should hold his patience, for one who separated from the main body of the Muslims even to the extent of a hand span and then he died would die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah.” [Ref: Muslim, B20, H4559] Deviation from main body is death of Jahiliyyah because main-body is lion’s share, and majority. Another Hadith from indicates majority is better than minority “Abu Dhar (Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that, “Two are better than one, and three better than two; so stick to the Jama'ah for verily Allah, Most Great and Glorious, will only unite my nation on guidance." [Ref: Musnad Ahmad, Kitab Al-Ansar, Abu Zar Al Ghafari, Hadith 20776] Out of three, two is majority, and out of five three is majority. Therefore prophetic advice would be to stick to which is better (i.e. majority) and that majority would be the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’ah. In another Hadith it is stated that we should follow the great majority and it is stated the Ummah will not unite upon misguidance -: “Anas bin Malik said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah say: ‘My nation will not unite on misguidance, so if you see them differing, follow the great majority.’” [Ref: Ibn Majah, B36, H3950] Prophetic advice to follow the majority could only be if the majority could not unite upon misguidance. Wahhabi: Brother these Ahadith refer to agreement over teachings of Deen not over disagreement/agreement over who is Mujaddid or Mujtahid. Sunni: Birth of Mujaddid every hundred years is part of teaching of Deen hence agreement over who is Mujaddid is part of it and therefore part of instruction to follow majority. Wahhabi: OK but your claim would be supported IF Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) foretold about birth of Mujtahid, he said about Mujaddid. Sunni: Mujaddid is responsible for renewing religion of Islam. Every hundred years or so old Masail/matters need to be dealt in light of new developments. How could Mujaddid do his job if he does not have ability of Ijtihad? Sunni: The prerequisite for Mujaddid is rank of Mujtahid because he needs to renew with Ijtihad. Mujaddid doesn’t search for the old books and publishes them again. Mujaddid: Here I am Mujaddid because I have reprinted books out of print. He carries out Ijtihad as a Mujtahid to comply with his role of Mujaddid. Wahhabi: Smile! I have never thought about it this way until now. Sunni: Well I am glad I have helped with something. Wahhabi: In this case my position would be weakened. Sunni: Which position? Wahhabi: Istighathah being Shirk and its practitioners being Mushrik. Sunni: I am glad you realised this. IF you have some material with aid of which we can judge who is Mujtahid and Mujaddid that would be great. It would be interesting to see how your criteria and our criteria agrees and disagrees. And we can use both to see IF Shaykh al-Najd Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, or Imam Ahmad Raza Khan al-Bareilwi (rahimullah) meets the criteria. Wahhabi: I haven’t read anything on who can be deemed as Mujtahid and Mujaddid. My knowledge on the subject is very basic. IF you’re keen to discuss than I will try to find content relating to it but I cannot promise it will be my top priority. Sunni: Mine isn’t of any worth either but I will search. 86 - My Questions About Ijtihad And Followers Of Mujtahid: Sunni: I want to return to my questions which you did not answer. Wahhabi: Which ones? Sunni: Ijtihad of Mujtahid leading him to believe phrase servants of Allah is inclusive of living, deceased, Awliyah, and inclusive of angels and Muslim Jinn. And due to this Mujtahid believes in permissibility of Istighathah practices it and so do people following his Ijtihad. Sunni: Question was; is the Mujtahid and his Muqallideen guilty of Shirk? Wahhabi: I do not believe Ahmad Raza is a Mujtahid. Sunni: That is neither the question nor part of discussion because even IF we both come to agreement that Sayyidi Ala Hazrat is not a Mujtahid and Mujaddid it will still not affect my point which I am intending to make. Wahhabi: IF a Mujtahid arrives to this understanding. It would be his mistake and those who follow him will be following him in an error. Sunni: This would be major mistake in understanding of Tawheed/Shirk. And his error is so serious that Mujtahid has legalized major Shirk. Is the Mujtahid guilty of major Shirk and Kufr? And what about those who follow him [are they also guilty of same]? Wahhabi: Ijtihad of Mujtahid is rewarded even IF it is invalid. Sunni: And those who practiced what he legalised? Wahhabi: No comment. I need to investigate this part. Sunni: Suppose I Ali strive and make every effort and come to same understanding as the Mujtahid. Will I be Mushrik IF I deem Istighathah permissible and practice it? Wahhabi: Yes, Shirk! Sunni: In your understanding Mujtahid/Mujaddid is not guilty of major Shirk but I am guilty of major Shirk? Wahhabi: … Sunni: In this context you’re not judging Shirk-ness or Tawheed-ness of Istighathah based on criteria of equality with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) but you are judging it on basis of Mujtahid's Ijtihad vs. Talib's effort. Mujtahid’s Ijtihad means his practice doesn’t nullify his Tawheed and his major Shirk becomes a reward worthy error. Yet my practice ONLY becomes major Shirk despite the fact that I and Mujtahid both will share exactly same creed regarding Istighathah. Sunni: We have come to understanding that your criteria of Shirk is presence of evidence means Tawheed and absence means Shirk, Ijtihad of Mujtahid is error but Tawheed isn’t invalidated by his belief or action, but for same belief and same action a common man’s Tawheed is invalidated. Furthermore seeking help/something XMan who has ability to help/grant is in accordance with teaching of Tawheed but seeking from XMan who doesn’t have ability/item to provide help/grant is Shirk. What this establishes is you do not judge Tawheed/Shirk based on the definitions of Tawheed/Shirk rather idiotic blameworthy innovative principles which have no foundation in Qur’an and Ahadith. 87 - Kharijis Invalidating Iman/Islam Of Major Scholars Of Islam: Wahhabi: Mujtahid error in Fiqh is rewarded but serious errors in creed would take him out of Islam [and therefore Ijtihad of Mujtahid legalising Istighathah would invalidate his Islam]. Sunni: Brother you’re correct that Hadith in which reward for errors in Ijtihad is mentioned is about Fiqhi issues and issues which Islam is not built on. Wahhabi: I have corrected my error. Sunni: I am glad you have corrected your mistake. There remain two problems: (i) You do not judge Tawheed/Shirk on basis of what each is but on something totally unrelated. (ii) Mujtahid’s Ijtihad establishing legality of Istighathah should make you cautious and it should force you to rethink your understanding instead you’ve resorted to attacking and nullifying their Iman/Islam. Wahhab: I did not attack [Iman/Islam of] anyone. Sunni: You wrote the following or not: “Mujtahid error in Fiqh is rewarded but serious errors in creed would take him out of Islam.” I was planning to quote you statement of Imam Mullah Ali al-Qari (rahimullah) in which he says the phrase servants of Allah is about angels, Jinn, and men of Ghayb (i.e. Rijal al-Ghayb). IF I make the mistake of quoting him would you give him excuse of ignorance or resort to his Takfir. Wahhabi: I did not declare out of Islam. Look how you have phrased it: “… and it should force you to rethink your understanding instead you’ve resorted to attacking and nullifying their Iman/Islam.” You’re attributing something so serious which I have not done. Sunni: Brother making commitment to assault Iman/Islam of a Muslim on condition IF this criterion is met than … and it has been met even IF you’re not aware in my books it means you’ve attacked and nullified their Islam/Iman. Wahhab: You’re a harsh judge than. Sunni: I meant: … and it has been met, even IF you’re not aware that your condition has been met, in my books it means you’ve attacked and nullified their Islam/Iman. Wahhabi: I understand you’ve made a logical deduction based on what I said but I have not yet targeted anyone. Wahhabi: IF Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (rahimullah) rejects Khatamiyyah of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) would he be a Kafir? Would you be guilty of declaring him Kafir IF you answered with, YES? Sunni: No don’t ask me a questions but ask this one to yourself: What would happen to your/mine Islam IF we turn against people who were/are the beacons illuminating Quran/Sunnah and start attacking their Iman/Islam based on a sectarian disagreements? Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) has said: “… the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah upon him, said: ‘There will be in the end of time charlatan liars coming to you with narrations that you nor your fathers heard, so beware of them lest they misguide you and cause you tribulations.’” [Ref: Muslim, Intro Hadith 15, here.] The early scholars are arbiters between me and you. IF we take a sword of Takfir and declare them Kafir and Mushrik we will be left with, I and My sect are only true Muslims. Sunni: Issue of Khatamiyyah isn’t an issue in which the Ummah is divided but we are unanimously in agreement that Khatam/Khatim has certified Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is the last and end of all Prophets and Messengers. You’re given example of something going against which not just I but the whole Ummah would say major Kufr and Kafir. Sunni: Istighathah is disputed issue between majority and minority. Majority of scholarship teaches Istighathah is not an issue of Aqeedah but instead it is primarily matter of Fiqh. Hence it is not Shirk and does not invalidate Iman/Islam due to it. Majority also considers it permissible. And a minority holds to view it is mainly issue of Aqeedah and practice of it invalidates Islam hence it is not allowed. Wahhabi: How is it not an issue of Aqeedah? Sunni: Salah is issue of Aqeedah or not? IF yes than why do we study it as Fiqh even though a component of Salah is related to creed? Aqeedah is pure belief and no action is part of it. Anything which is action based i.e. Istighathah is Fiqh even though component of it is connected with creed. Wahhabi: The key point was to say XMan would be guilty of Kufr/Shirk IF certain condition is met is not same as saying XMan is Kafir/Mushrik. You said I have nullified the Iman and Islam of major scholars of Ummah. This is not simply true. Sunni: I have explained why I wrote it. In Quran Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) equates back biting to eating flesh of dead brother. Objective is to dissuade by comparing it to something really disgusting and similarly I have developed your verdict about these Imams from your statement. I intended to simply to show its end result and force you to back track. Wahhabi: OK. I understand but I would not like you to attribute such things to me until I say them. It comes under categories of spreading false rumours about me. Sunni: JazakAllah Khayr. I will not do it again. Sorry. [Realizing that so much effort is being wasted and the man has yet to see the light of Islam. I decided to go to his Wahhabi side but with slightly more vigour for Wahhabi version of Tawheed.] 88 - In Hardship Polytheists Sought Help Of Allah: Sunni: Why do you think Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said that a Muslim should seek help from servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) IF Muslim is lost desert? Wahhabi: There are angels appointed by Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to provide help so he just wanted the believers to know they will be helped. Sunni: Yeah! I understand that. What I am asking is why didn’t Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) say seek help from Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) IF you are lost in the desert? Wahhabi: Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) only permitted it because Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) permitted it. Sunni: My brother I understand Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) does not permit anything which Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) does not permit but … Sunni: You see when the polytheists were at sea and IF there was a storm then they invoked Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) alone but when they reached the safety of dry land they committed Shirk, established by following verse: “And when harm touches you upon the sea, those that you call upon besides Him are lost from you – except Him (Allah alone). But when He brings you safely to land, you turn away (from Him). And man is ever ungrateful.” [Ref: 17:67] Wahhabi: Yes they committed Shirk in Uluhiyyah (i.e. Shirk in worship) not in Tawheed Al Rububiyyah (i.e. Tawheed of Lordship). I said: Brother please can you not interfere while I am writing and let me complete. Wahhabi: I won’t but sometimes I need ... but I won’t again. 89 - Angels As Daughters Of Allah And Is Prophet Reinforcing Shirk: Sunni: You need to take note that the polytheists invoked Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in time of difficulty but committed Shirk in time of comfort. Yet Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is asking the Muslims to seek help from angels in time of difficulty. Doesn’t this establish the polytheists understood role of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in receiving help and that’s why they sought His help alone and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) didn’t understand it? Wahhabi: … Sunni: IF you look at the issue in the context of polytheists taking angels as daughters of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and believing them to be gods beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). This seeking of help from angels wouldn’t that reinforce the polytheistic belief of angel gods in your methodology? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Don’t you think according to your [Salafi] methodology Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is instructing Shirk by instructing to ask the servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to help in time of difficulty and not instructing to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Wahhabi: Na’awzu bi’illah min zalik. Brother help is being asked from the angels hence there is no Shirk because the help being asked is in power of angels. Sunni: You are aware that polytheists took the angels as gods besides Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and worshipped them so IF the aid was to sought from angels then how was this different from polytheism of polytheists? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Brother Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) could have instructed the Muslims to seek help from Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in such circumstances and then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) would instruct the angels to provide the help being sought. We both know the angels do nothing but with permission of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) hence seeking aid directly from angels is of no consequence. Instead of blocking the means to Shirk we find Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) opening the gate of Shirk. Sunni: You believe Dua is worship so how can invoking the angels and leaving Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) not be Shirk in your sects understanding? Wahhabi: I don’t believe Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) instructed Shirk [in this Hadith] but I do believe that he did not adequately block the means to Shirk. Sunni: There is another issue connected with this topic of blocking the means to Shirk. 90 – Shirk And Wahhabi Said Prophet Not Adequately Blocked Shirk: Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) instructed the angels to prostrate to Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) and story of Prophet Yaqub (alayhis salaam) and his wife prostrating to Prophet Yusuf (alayhis salaam) are recorded in the Qur’an: “And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam", and they prostrated except Iblis (i.e. Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers.” [Ref: 2:34] “And he raised his parents to the throne and they fell down before him prostrate. And he said: "O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream afore time! My Lord has made it come true! He was indeed good to me, when He took me out of the prison, and brought you (all here) out of the bedouin-life, after Shaitan (Satan) had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Certainly, my Lord is the Most Courteous and Kind unto whom He wills. Truly He! Only He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.” [Ref: 12:100] Do you believe mention of these stories in the Qur’an supports the position that Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) did not appropriately block the means to Shirk of worship? Wahhabi: Absolutely not! Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) clearly instructed that He alone should be worshipped throughout the Qur’an. Sunni: Just because throughout the Qur’an worship of creation is prohibited therefore you believe Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) appropriately blocked the means to Shirk. What do you think the Messenger of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) did all his life? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Did he not worship Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and instructed His worship and forbade all types of Shirk? Wahhabi: … Sunni: How dare you say that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not appropriately block the means to Shirk in this case! Wahhabi: I only said that due Hadith in discussion and on basis IF Hadith was authentic which you know I believe Hadith is not authentic. You know I did not want to discuss the contents of Hadith because I believed it is a Weak Hadith and I said to you anything established I would not be liable to believe. Sunni: Yet you wouldn’t say Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) failed to appropriately block the means to Shirk of worship in the Quran on basis of these verses which I mentioned. IF you loved the beloved Messenger of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) you would not have dared to utter such Kufr. [I was absolutely livid and on verge outright abusing him. I had to sign-out and block him on Yahoo, PalTalk, and his e-mail address. Few days after I regained composure I unblocked him. He came back on the Yahoo Messenger so I planned to continue the flow of discussion in the same direction in the hope that with help and direction he will eventually realize the error and Kufr.] 91 - Wahhabi Refuses To Say About Allah What He Said About Prophet: Sunni: You said: “I only said that due Hadith in discussion and on basis IF Hadith was authentic which you know I believe Hadith is not authentic.” It makes absolutely no difference IF the Hadith is authentic or not. Just having the audacity in saying to say that you believe Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not properly block IF Hadith is authentic is Kufr. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) instructed angels to prostrate to Adam (alayhi salam). Yet you wouldn’t say Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) did not appropriately block the means to Shirk al-Uluhiyyah in the Qur’an on basis of these verses which I mentioned. Wahhabi: I will reword what I said earlier. IF the Hadith is authentic than I would say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not appropriately block routes to Shirk but it is not authentic. Sunni: What you said has got nothing to do with authenticity of Hadith because concrete verse didn’t make you say the same about Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Wahhabi: Brother my statement was conditional on basis IF Hadith is authentic. Sunni: Why wouldn’t you say the same about Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because the verses of Quran are authentic beyond comprehension? Wahhabi: We have no right upon our Lord to critique His decision as Muslims. We obey and submit to Him in Islam. Sunni: The reality is you have such a high degree of respect and love for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) that you would not even contemplate saying, I believe statement about Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) neither you would say, I would say this negative about Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) IF this condition was met. And Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is insignificant expendable compared to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and therefore in your mind his honour is collateral damage in defence of Wahhabism. This is the reality which you’re refusing to come to terms with. Sunni: Wallah il-Azeem this is evident Kufr. IF you loved the beloved Messenger of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and respected him as he should be respected than you would not have dared to utter such Kufr. Wahhabi: How can you say what I said is Kufr? Sunni: Wallah il-Azeem your blood is Halal. Wahhabi: All of sudden you have become judge, jury, and a potential executioner. Sunni: I am not judge and not would be or could be your executioner but I am definitely jury determining IF you’re guilty or not. You’re guilty of insulting Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) which is major Kufr. IF I was judge and you was in my court I would book your date with executioner. Wahhabi: I am not surprised though because this is how Ahmad Raza Khan distorted words of Taqwiyat ul-Iman to make case of Kufr against Shah [Ismail Dehalvi] Shaheed. Sunni: You’re really getting on my nerves. I need to leave. [Contents of following section were sent to him via an e-mail to point him in the right direction but I assume he did not read contents of this e-mail.] 92 - Wahhabi’s Kufri Statement Is Saying Prophet Failed Core Of His Mission: Sunni: What you said on the other day [at the end of section 89], I believe Prophet did not block means to Shirk properly, and [in section 91] you said IF Hadith is authentic I would say the same, both statements are no lesser insult and Kufr than what Dhul Khuwaisirah said to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). Sunni: He said to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) that you did not deal justly and the companions drew their swords to kill him: “While we were with Allah's Apostle who was distributing [spoils of war], there came Dhu-l-Khuwaisira, a man from the tribe of Bani Tamim and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do Justice." [Ref: Bukhari, B56, H807] “… While the Prophet was distributing (war booty – raw gold) one day, Dhul Khawaisira, a man from the tribe of Bani Tamim, said, "O Allah's Apostle! Act justly." The Prophets said, "Woe to you! Who else would act justly if I did not act justly?" Umar said (to the Prophet ), "Allow me to chop his neck off." The Prophet said, "No...” [Ref: Bukhari, B73, H184] In a way what you said is so monstrous even Dhul Khuwaisirah was a saint compared to what you said. You said Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not properly block the routes to Shirk than you said I will say the same IF Hadith is authentic. I am sure you will want to know why I said that. Sunni: The cornerstone objective due to which Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) granted Prophet-hood and Messenger-ship to His last and the end of all prophets was to promote Tawheed, eradicate Shirk and to block routes to Shirk and build a straight path leading to Tawheed. I will spell out what you said and why it is Kufr. Sunni: (i) You said O Messenger of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) I believe you did not properly do your job, to block means to Shirk. You FAILED in one aspect of your commission. (ii) You said IF this condition is met than I will say that O Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) you FAILED in blocking routes to Shirk. You FAILED in one core objective of your Prophet-hood and Messenger-ship. Sunni: Are you willing to say that to the Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) IF the Hadith is authentic? What you should have done instead is … He is above reproach and above any criticism as is He who sent Him and taught Him. I do not and will not raise my voice above the voice of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) neither above the command of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) which the Hadith would be IF it was authentic. I believe in all which is revealed to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) without question. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says: “O you who have believed, do not put (yourselves) ahead of Allah and His Messenger but fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.” [Ref: 49:1] This Ayah means do not decide what should be religion ahead of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and His Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). It also means do not oppose Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and His Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) when they have decided something as religion: “… (and His messenger) until you receive Allah's command and the command of His Messenger; it is also said that this means: do not oppose the Messenger; and it is said this means: do not contravene the Book of Allah or the practice of His Messenger …” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Abbas, 49:1, here.] Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says: “O you who have believed, do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, or be loud to him in speech like the loudness of some of you to others, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not.” [Ref: 49:2] To speak loudly over while another is speaking is sign that you believe what you have to say and your view on something is more important than what they are saying. In this light the Ayah also means do not give your own views precedence over what Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) has taught or is teaching. 93 – Addressing Wahhabi’s Accusation Against Imam Distorting Writings: Sunni: Yesterday you said Imam Ahmad Raza Khan twisted the writings of Shaykh Ismail Dehalvi in our last session. Wahhabi: I think truth of what I said touched a nerve. Smile. Sunni: You touched wrong nerve when you said I believe and I would say IF Hadith was authentic that Prophet did not block the means to Shirk properly. You can’t imagine how close I was to saying something which I would have regretted. Sunni: I left yesterday because you brought issues of Taqwiyat ul-Iman into our discussion and I do not want to discuss statements which are insulting Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). I left Dawah to Christians because it involved having to bear insults hurled at Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). I only discuss such statements when I absolutely have to. Plus you’re poorly informed about history of events and contents on which scholars of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah objected and blasted Shaykh Ismail. Wahhabi: I am sure you would claim to know all truth. Sunni: Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi (rahimullah) was second generation of scholars opposing Taqwiyat ul-Iman and pointing out where and how he insulted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). Deobandis have record in which Shaykh Ismail Dehalvi himself says he has employed harsh language in parts his book Taqwiyat ul-Iman and has been extreme in other parts and as consequence there will be strife but people will argue/fight over it and sort themselves out, here. Despite knowing the contents are extreme in nature and offensive and insulting the gathering of major Shayateen including Shaykh Abdul Hay Lakhnawi decided to publish the book as it was written. Wahhabi: And I suppose to believe you without evidence? Sunni: It is available over on IslamiMehfil.com but in Urdu. Wahhabi: There is nothing insulting about what he wrote you are just over-stretching what he wrote like you’re doing to what I wrote. Sunni: You personally insulted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) and now you’re defending a man who insulted Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) deliberately and with very obvious intent. Wahhabi: Why would he insult Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) when the book is about Tawheed? This makes absolutely no sense. Sunni: Give me two minutes. Sunni: “Meaning all humans are brothers of each other. One who is bara buzurq (great personality) that one is older/great brother. Therefore respect him like an older brother. And Malik of all is Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala), worship is due to him. From this Hadith we learn that, saints, Prophets, Imams and sons of Imams, and spiritual guides (i.e. Peer) and martyrs. Meaning all people beloved/near to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) are human, and humble humans, and our brothers, but Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) granted them bara’ee (greatness), therefore they are our baray (i.e. elder/great) brothers. We have been instructed to obey their instructions. We are their chotay (younger/minor) therefore they should be respected like human beings.” [Ref: Taqwiyat ul-Iman, Page 80, here.] “Every person may he be great (bara) or lowly (chota), may he be Prophet or a saint (Wali) …” [Taqwiyat ul-Iman, page 75, here.] In these parts of his book you can see he uses word bara/baray to mean Prophets, Awliyah of Allah including companions and chota/chotay to mean common Muslims. Do you agree with that? Wahhabi: IF your translation is correct than it would seem so. Sunni: “And know/believe (with firm) conviction every creation may he be great (bara) or lowly (chota) compared to exalted status of Allah is more disgraced then a cobbler." [Ref: Taqwiyat ul-Iman, page 35, here.] You can see in this statement he has stated Prophets, Awliyah in general including companions are chamar say bi zaleel i.e. more disgraced than a Chamar when compared to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Is this really the case? Wahhabi: You would want them to be equal with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? Sunni: He said while comparing Prophets, Awliyah and Chamar with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) that they are more zaleel i.e. disgraced, honour-less than Chamar. He is saying when Prophets, Awliyah, Chamar are all compared to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) Chamar has somewhat better honour than Prophets and Awliyah. Wahhabi: No he isn’t saying that. There is nothing wrong with what he wrote. He is saying Prophets and Awliyah are not equal in honour/Izza with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). His Izza is greater than them. Sunni: Compared to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) … every creation … be it great or lowly … is more honour-less, is more disgraced … than a Chamar. Wahhabi: And? Sunni: Which is indicating is other way of saying … a Chamar is … less Zaleel … than every creation … be it great or lowly … i.e. be they Prophets or commoners … when compared to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Wahhabi: No doubt it lacks proper manners and a very dangerous statement when you look at the fact that Shaykh Shaheed counted Prophets and Awliyah amongst great persons. Did Ahmad Raza declare him Kafir due to this statement? Sunni: No. He declared statements to be Kufr but because it was popular amongst people Shaykh Ismail Dehalvi repented he did not make Takfir. His position was anyone who makes his Takfir we will not condemn neither condone Takfir but remain silent in his regards to his Islam. My position is Shaykh Ismail Dehalvi died Kafir because there is no reliable report of his repentance. Wahhabi: You’re not qualified to declare anyone Kafir. You’re not even an Aalim IF I am correct. Sunni: Scholars before Imam Ahmad Raza Khan al-Barelwi (rahimullah) declared him Kafir and I follow their verdict and what agrees with my understanding. Let’s leave this discussion. 94 - Seeking Help From Angels And Jinn Is Shirk In Wahhabism: Sunni: There is something we discussed earlier I want to revisit IF you’re OK with it. Wahhabi: IF you want to continue what happened on the other day than it is better to leave now. I will not discuss this Hadith or its text on hypothetical basis. Sunni: Why not? Wahhabi: Hadith is Weak and I see no reason to continue. Sunni: You know this Hadith teaches Shirk according to Salafi methodology because Mushrikeen worshipped Jinns and angels and directed Dua to them. Wahhabi: Brother this Hadith doesn’t teach Shirk because the help sought is in power of angels so they can help, they are alive, and help sought from them is of type which creation is in power of creation. It would be Shirk IF the opposite of these points was true. Sunni: IF the angels couldn’t help, IF they were dead, and the help was of supernatural type which only Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) can provide than it would be Shirk? Wahhabi: Yes. Sunni: This is Salafi criteria to determine IF a Dua is in agreement with Tawheed or not? Wahhabi: It is brother. Sunni: What is your evidence? Did Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) say, they invoke the deceased and such call is of Shirk? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Did Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) say, they invoke for supernatural which I can only do, they commit Shirk by asking supernatural from creation? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Did Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) say, they invoke ones who cannot help, invoking ones who cannot help is Shirk? Wahhabi: Sunni: How is this your criteria of judging Tawheed/Shirk in Dua when it has no evidence of Quran and the prophetic Sunnah? Wahhabi: These rules are derived out of Quran and Sunnah. Sunni: The way you guys derived these rules and decided what Shirk/Tawheed is I also have derived understanding seeking help of angels/Jinn is Shirk. Be the sought help natural and supernatural, from living Jinn/angels, and even help which they can provide because the Mushrikeen invoked them for help of all type. Wahhabi: I won’t comment on Jinn but asking help from angels is not Shirk and not their worship and not Shirk. Sunni: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) revealed in Q17:40 Mushrikeen believed angels are daughters of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). In verse Q6:100 He states Mushrikeen associated Jinn with Him. In Q37:158 Mushrikeen are said to have believed Jinn are relatives i.e. daughters of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). In Q34:41 it is stated Mushrikeen worshipped Jinn and other verses indicate angels were worshipped as well such as Q34:40. In this context I ask you; did they not commit Shirk by invoking Jinns and angels? Wahhabi: … Sunni: Did the Mushrikeen not invoke angels in worship? Wahhabi: They did invoke as to worship. Sunni: Than answer the question; did they not commit Shirk by invoking angels? Wahhabi: Yes. Sunni: Than is asking help from angels Shirk or not? Wahhabi: It is not Shirk in when sought while acting on the Weak Hadith [centre of this discussion] but it is Shirk when Mushrikeen do it. Sunni: How? Wahhabi: Same like prostrating to Prophet Adam (alayhis salam) by angels. It wasn’t Shirk because Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) instructed it. Do it against instruction of and in absence of instruction of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) than it is Shirk. Sunni: You don’t think creed of Tawheed and intention had anything to do with actions of angels and Mushrikeen? Wahhabi: I am not answering anymore questions. 95 - Comedy Of Wahhabi Tawheed And Understanding Of Shirk: Sunni: Tawheed and Shirk has a new rule; act on Weak Hadith and action is Tawheedi but act without Weak Hadith backing you than action is Shirki. I cannot stop laughing at this. Wahhabi: O! You’ve sense of humour. Sunni: I laughed because in your methodology Weak Hadith is good as not having any evidence. Wahhabi: I would say pretty close to it. Sunni: What you said made me laugh because according to you an action with no evidence, or as you said pretty close to no evidence is Tawheedi. Same action is Shirk when performed by Mushrikeen because there is no evidence in support of their action. Sunni: Call it Karamah of Wahhabi Dawah because it is Tawheed/Shirk for same reason. Who said Wahhabis have not had a zero Wali who has displayed Karamah. Wahhabi: You can mock me as much as you like but don’t be sneaky with me. I only said Hadith is pretty close to being no evidence and you added Hadith is no evidence than based on what you said (i.e. that Hadith is no evidence) you concluded I declared something Tawheed/Shirk on same basis. Sunni: Sorry. It is just my quirky sense of humour. Sunni: I did not distort what you said and I did not add my conclusion based on what I said ONLY but based on the truth of matter. Wahhabi: I said Hadith is pretty close to not being evidence than you concluded saying that I [Wahhabi] believe seeking help of angels is Tawheed/Shirk because there is no evidence. You’re giving wrong impression about my belief. Sunni: You said pretty close to not being evidence. Does that mean Hadith can be employed as evidence? Wahhabi: It is not evidence for anything. Sunni: You classed it as pretty close to having no value as evidence but not being no evidence. Wahhabi: It is not evidence of anything in Shari’ah. Sunni: Hadith is in books so it was termed as evidence but it is no Shar’ri evidence on basis of which you believe an action can be based on. Am I correct? Wahhabi: Yes. Sunni: In reality this Weak Hadith is no Shar’ri evidence to support any practice. I said [earlier] seeking help from angels is Shirk/Tawheed on basis of no evidence. I wasn’t misrepresenting the reality. I wasn’t concluding based on what you said but based on actual value of Hadith as evidence. Was I unjustified in my conclusion? Wahhabi: … Sunni: You declared something is Shirk and Tawheed on the same time on basis of no Shar’ri evidence. Did you not? Wahhabi: … 96 – Some Random Chat Due To My Big Mouth And Delusion Of Grandeur: Sunni: I walked this path of debates/discussions my entire religious life 16+ years out of 27/31 I have lived. I am not your regular Barelwi victim. I have spent all that time studying and debating some 10 subjects. There is nothing I haven’t heard before and nor anything I haven’t responded to. Wahhabi: Your experience has put you in advantageous position. You made rules to benefit you while I assumed they were neutral and balanced. Sunni: When you say something I have read it, computed it, mapped different routes, how I need to respond, and conclusions it would lead to. Years attempting to understand what people say, write and why, what it means for me has made it possible for me to understand what people say/write sometimes even before they have understood. Wahhabi: Brother Ali we all do this in some capacity but you have distinct advantage and experience in discussions which has made it possible for you to realize errors and point them out. Maybe you have better understanding of meanings of words in relation to what is said in context Deen due to debates/discussions because you can relate to your experience. Sunni: This is cross examination style discussion this is why rules seem to be favouring me because they have put me in position of power/control and you on back pedal. That doesn’t mean you can’t check my questioning and interrogation with evidences of Quran/Sunnah, sound reasoning. I am in control of discussion and direction of it but not in control truth and whom it supports. Wahhabi: True but your experience has given you advantage in planning your discussion. Sunni: I agree. Let us return to real issue or we can do it next session. Wahhabi: Next session would be better. Today we wasted a lot of time on irrelevant stuff. 97 - Wahhabi, You Didn’t Demonstrate Shirk According Wahhabi Methodology: Sunni: In our earlier sessions I had reasoned [in section 94] that invoking angels like Mushrikeen of Arabia did is Shirk on basis of Salafi methodology and I conclude seeking help from angels is Shirk irrespective creed/intention even if done due to Hadith. Wahhabi: You did not arrive to this understanding based on our methodology nor what you wrote above represents our understanding of the matter. You keep saying this is our methodology. What is our methodology? You don’t know anything. Sunni: Did you not quote me the following Ayah [in section 09] to establish invoking the deceased is Shirk: “And those they invoke other than Allah create nothing, and they (themselves) are created. They are (in fact) dead, not alive, and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected.” [Ref: 16:21] You drew similarity between actions of Mushrikeen and Muslims and dead-ness and established Shirk. Your logic was; both call/invoke the dead, both Mushrikeen. I am using the same logic this is Shirk here and IF action resembles action of Mushrikeen and being resembles in some detail which Mushrikeen worshipped than Shirk. Similarity is in (i) calling, (ii) to seek help from angels, Shirk. And this is not just unique to you but Salafis scholarship also establishes Shirk in this fashion and not on basis of creed neither establishes worship on intentions. Wahhabi: My action is not representative of methodology employed by Salafi scholarship so you’re hardly justified in saying this about Salafism. Sunni: I will have to leave it here and return to our discussion. It is shame that you have resorted to contradict and disagree with me on something which you and I know is correct representation of Salafi methodology. Wahhabi: IF it is than quote me a source. That is all I want. Sunni: I don’t know anything particular where this is stated as a principle but I can quote you many examples in which same methodology is used to establish Shirk. Wahhabi: You acknowledge that this is not a Salafi principle stated in our books but something which you have deduced. Sunni: I did not say it was principle written down but I derived the principle through simple observation based on how I have personally and how Salafi scholarship has been establishing Shirk. Wahhabi: I disagree with your saying that you have derived principle based on Salafi scholarship’s practice. Rather it is based on what you have seen laymen do. Sunni: I agree with disagree and I wish to move on. [Our discussion continued in section 99. Following (i.e. section 98) was not originally part of our discussion it is being added in 2022 version. It is mainly due to quote from Shaykh al-Albani. There are many such examples from books of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab and other prominent Wahhabi scholars but I limit myself to just one example.] 98 - Demonstrating My Methodology Was No Different Than Shaykh Albani’s: Shaykh Albani: “This description can only apply to the angels or the jinn, because they are the ones who we do not usually see. … So it is not permissible to include with them Muslims among the jinn or humans whom they call “men of the unseen,” such as the Awliya’ and the righteous, whether they are alive or dead. Seeking help from them and seeking their aid is blatant shirk, because they cannot hear the supplication, and even if they could hear it, they would not be able to respond and fulfil the request. This is clearly stated in many verses, including the passage in which Allah, may He be blessed and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone). If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad SAW) like Him Who is the All-Knower (of each and everything). (35:13/14)” [Ref: Silsilat al-Ahaadeeth ad-Da‘eefah wa’l-Mawdoo‘ah (656), here.] (i) Numerous Ahadith establish that deceased people do hear and verses of Quran establish hearing of dead people so obviously verse employed by Shaykh Albani is regarding about dead who cannot hear. The verse is about idol gods of Mushrikeen which are said to be dead in another verse because they are made out of dead, inorganic earth materials such as stones etc. In many verses of Quran Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) says earth was dead and he gave it life. This is true in two ways; (a) He caused vegetation to grow, (b) and created all living creatures out of material/minerals which are essentially lifeless. I have deviated and I shall return to topic. Inorganic material in language of Quran is dead and earth was dead i.e. inorganic before He gave it life. (ii) Anyhow Wahhabis believe dead cannot hear and do not respond and cannot grant anything. Due to this similarity Shaykh Albani applied verse Q35:13/14 upon deceased Awliyah and Prophets. In reality it was revealed about Mushrikeen and it is describing characteristics of idol-Ilahs. (iii) Shaykh Albani applied this verse and generally would apply all verses describing idol-Ilahs as; unable to hear, see, know, and possess anything; unable to grant a need, protect their callers, themselves from harm; unable to create anything but being created themselves; all such verses upon Prophets and Awliyah. And Shaykh Albani would apply and every Wahhabi would apply every verse revealed regarding Mushrikeen; in which Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) censored the Mushrikeen from invoking in worship idol-Ilahs; upon Muslims on basis of some similarity between actions of Mushrikeen and Muslims while totally ignoring/disregarding the difference in creed. Wahhabi basis for doing this and their methodology is that description of qualities mentioned in these verses of idol-Ilahs is matching deceased Prophets and Awliyah. In addition action of Mushrikeen; invoking idol-Ilahs in worship for things; is similar to action of Muslims who practice Istighathah (i.e. asking the souls of deceased Awliyah to help). This is how Shirk in Wahhabism is established. This is how Shaykh Albani justified his accusation of Shirk and this is how I justified asking angels is Shirk [in sections 89 and 94]. 99 - Khariji Said, Prophet Muhammad Facilitated Shirk: Wahhabi: Brother Ali our scholars have not said seeking help from angels is Shirk and they are more aware of our methodology than you’re. Sunni: Maybe you’re not aware of the methodology they are on as well as I am. Wahhabi: IF this [act of seeking help angels being Shirk] is in accordance with teaching of our Minhaj than why don’t you quote a reputable scholar saying this? Sunni: I have knowledge of methodology what I don’t have is knowledge of Fatawah on every aspect of Salafi creed but I will do my research and I will get back to you. Wahhabi: You’re speculating than. Sunni: IF it is speculation than we need to move onto something which is not something concrete, something definitive. Wahhabi: And that is? Sunni: Well my brother you know that polytheists invoked Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in time of difficulty but at the time of ease invoked pious worshippers of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and yet they were Mushrikeen. On the other hand Hadith indicates that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) instructed the obedient servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to be invoked in time of difficulty to alleviate the problem. Is this teaching not turning people away from invoking Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and instead instructing them to seek help from servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) like Mushrikeen invoked pious servants of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala)? He replied: Brother this is not Shirk. Asking the angels to help you in what is in their powers is not Shirk. I said: Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) was sent as a prophet to spread the message of Tawheed and to instruct people to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) for all things. Yet in this Hadith IF I judge according to your methodology than clear Shirk is being taught by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). Wahhabi: This Hadith is Weak. Sunni: What IF this Hadith is Sahih or Hassan then will you agree Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) taught Shirk? Wahhabi: Yes IF this Hadith is Sahih/Hassan than Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) facilitated Shirk of calling others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) but unintentionally but I believe it is not. I will explain my position. Sunni: I seek refuge in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) from the cursed Iblees. Sunni: The Prophets are free from sin! Sunni: Prophets are free from sins of all type. Sunni: “When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place.” [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H583] There is support for the Hadith from prophetic teaching. Wahhabi: Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) committed Shirk because he named his son Abdul Harris instead of Abdullah [as indicated in Kitab at-Tawheed, chapter 50, pages 95/96, here ]. Sunni: Prophet Adam (alayhis salam) did not commit Shirk of any type. To say any Prophet of committing any Shirk is Kufr. Wahhabi: He obeyed Shaytan and obedience to him is Shirk according to Hadith so even the Prophets can commit Shirk. Facilitating an act which is Shirk is lesser offence so it is quite possible Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) instructed this act of Shirk without knowing the effects it will have upon Tawheed Muslims. Sunni: The Hadith this is based on is extremely Weak Hadith. According to many scholars it is Mawdu i.e. a lie and a forgery. And you’re basing and justifying charge of engaging in Shirk and accusation of teaching Shirk and accommodating Shirk on this Hadith. Wahhabi: I am aware Shaykh Albani has said this Hadith is Weak but I agree with what Imam [Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab] has said about Hadith. Sunni: Shouldn’t you be cautious instead of blurting out Kufr upon Kufr? Wahhabi: … 100 - Who Is Responsible For Muslims Committing Shirk: Sunni: In your sect’s methodology obedience to Shaytan on issues of Halal and Haram, Tawheed and Shirk, is akin to taking Iblees as a lord besides Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). This is Shirk which invalidates Tawheed so you believe that Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) committed major Shirk which invalidated his Tawheed? Wahhabi: … Sunni: You said Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) facilitated Shirk of calling others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) i.e. the act of calling dead persons for help which you believe is Shirk. Wahhabi: I didn’t say that but I assume you’re contextualizing meaning of my statement in context of this discussion. Sunni: Two people engage in a fight and a third person hands a knife to one of them. The knife is used during the fight and one of the two fighting is killed. Now in court the murderer will be punished but the one who handed the knife over is also a criminal because he aided a criminal activity. Do you not think when the Sufi grave-worshippers will be punished in hell-fire eternally some punishment will be due for our Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) for his hand? Wahhabi: Brother this is Kufr system. Islam does not support the concept of aiding a criminal activity is criminal act. Sunni: Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said, one who innovates a reprehensible innovation and IF others follow his innovation the originator of innovation will have sin increased each time others act on his innovation: "And whoever introduces an erroneous innovation, which Allah is not pleased with nor His Messenger, then he shall receive sins similar to whoever acts upon it, without that diminishing anything from the sins of the people.” [Ref: Tirmadhi, B29, H2677] “And whoever sets an evil precedent in Islam, he will have a burden of sin for that, and the burden of those who acted in accordance with it, without that detracting from their burden in the slightest.” [Ref: Nisai, B23, H2555] By acting on the innovation people aid the innovation and as a result they and the creator of reprehensible innovation will be punished. Now will Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) be punished for his part in spread of polytheistic practice of seeking help from the dead? [I received no response to this question of mine and after few minutes he seemed to go off-line never to sign-in again until ... My guess is that he blocked me and did not wish to discuss with me anymore. In a subsequent discussion nearly a decade later he revealed he repented his, here, saying Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam accommodated Shirk. Fortunately by the end of second discussion he disowned the notion Istighathah is Shirk.] 101 - Seeking Help Of Angels is Shirk V.S. It Is Not Shirk: In the beginning of section 99 Wahhabi wanted evidence that Salafi scholarship stating seeking help of angels is Shirk. Even though I was aware there are Fatawah saying precisely that but at that time I couldn’t come up with a reference. While compiling this comprehensive version in 2022 of discussion I did bit of digging around and managed to source a statement from Wahhabi prominent Fatawah site: “Question: Among some of the common people there is the widespread practice of saying, before going to sleep, “O guardian angels, wake me up at such-and-such a time.” Answer: Praise be to Allah. This is not permissible, and in fact it is a form of major Shirk, because it involves calling upon someone other than Allaah and asking for something from one of the unseen creatures. This is like asking from the jinn or idols or the dead, because of the general meaning of the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning): … Allaah described calling upon anyone other than Him, such as the dead, idols, the jinn or the angels, as shirk or the association of others in worship with Him. He said (interpretation of the meaning): …. So Allaah calls those who call upon anyone other than Him Kafireen. This applies to all those who call upon anyone other than Allaah, whether it be the dead, idols, jinn or angels; no one is excluded from that except one who is alive, present and able to help, because Allaah says in the story of Musa (interpretation of the meaning): … Examples of this shirk are to be found in what some people say, such as “O jinn, seize him” or “O seven (Jinn), seize him” or “O Jinn of the noon-time, seize him” or “O Jinn of such-and-such a valley” or “O Jinn of such-and-such a land”. All of this is major Shirk and is calling upon unseen creatures instead of Allaah. If a person says, “O angels of Allaah, wake me up” or “protect me”, this is also major Shirk, and if he says, “O Jinn protect me” or “wake me up”, this is also major Shirk. We seek refuge with Allaah from that. The Muslim must beware of that and must seek help from Allaah alone and ask from Him alone, for He is Sufficient and He is Able to do all things. Allaah is the One Who says (interpretation of the meaning): … And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If you ask of anyone, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help, then seek help from Allah.” We ask Allaah to help us and all the Muslims to understand His religion and to keep us safe from the things that cause His wrath, for He is the All-Hearing, Ever Near. “[Ref: Ruling On Calling Upon The Angels Before Sleeping, Question 10084, under supervision of Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid, here.] Wahhabi brother was not wrong in saying Salafi scholarship has said seeking help of angels is not Shirk but that discussion is only in context of Hadith of servant of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). They have to adopt this contradictory position because they are aware major scholars of Ummah including Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (rahimullah) acted upon this Hadith. Hence in context of those Ahadith and narrations Wahhabis do not declare calling of angels Shirk but outside of that they will say it is Shirk. 102 - Wahhabi Scam Tawheed/Shirk V.S. Islamic Tawheed/Shirk: Their version of Tawheed/Shirk and the methodology to determine each is nothing less than a scam and distortion of Tawheed/Shirk and Islam. Wahhabis say the Mushrikeen sought from angels which only Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) could do hence they were Mushrikeen. And Imams sought help which is creation is also able to provide hence seeking help of angels was not Shirk. These rules have nothing to do with distinguishing Tawheed over Shirk neither Shirk from Tawheed. Neither Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) nor the Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) employed these principles to distinguish one from the other hence these are evil innovations. Furthermore Mushrikeen sought both types from Min Du’nillah (i.e. others beside Allah). They sought help from others beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) what you classify as; (a) what Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is able to do, (b) and what creation is able to do from angels. And yet they were polytheists and disbelievers irrespective of which they sought from angels because seeking of both warranted worship and Kufr. In addition Wahhabi Shaykh Asim al-Hakeem says seeking help from angels/Jinn even which creation is able to do is Shirk, here. And this dumb- has condemned mother of Prophet Ismail (alayhis salam) to Shirk: “When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, 'O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?" And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place.” [Ref: Bukhari, B55, H583] Shaykh Asim al-Hakeem is judging Shirk according to Salafi methodology and he is not wrong in his judgment act of seeking help from angles warrants charge of Shirk. A act which Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not say was Shirk but Wahhabi methodology of determining Tawheed/Shirk, Shaykh Asim al-Hakeem, and I say according to methodology of Wahhabism is Shirk. IF Wahhabism was the true Islam from beginning to present and Wahhabism was dominant group up to present than it is great shame that two fundamentals of Islam Tawheed/Shirk haven’t yet been properly systemized and understood. Imams and people who had help of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) were practicing Shirk according to some Wahhabis and were upon Tawheed according to other Wahhabis. Exactly what is Tawheed/Shirk and how it is to be determined has evaded Wahhabis and Wahhabism. 103 - How Mother Of Prophet Ismail And How Imams Remained Free From Shirk: A righteous female-servant of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala), a mother of Prophet, whom angel helped, and angels help none but with permission of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala), hence Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) helped. Question is why this mother of Prophet Ismail (alayhis salam), and the Imams are not guilty of major Kufr/Shirk when the type of help sought doesn’t remove major Kufr/Shirk? You have no way left but to retreat to Islam and adopt and respond as Muslims respond: The Mushrikeen affirmed Ilahiyyah/Rububiyyah in context of angels and intended to worship angels hence their every call and seeking of help of every type was worship and warranted major Kufr. The Imams did not affirm Ilahiyyah nor intended to worship angels but only sought help with belief angels are appointed to task by Him to provide help. The creed which makes person a Mushrik, and intention makes action a worship/Kufr were absent hence no Shirk/Kufr. By saying creed of … and intention of … you will validate Islamic principle and invalidate your argument against Istighathah because it is based on absence of Shirki creed and intention which turns an action into worship. True Tawheed is to believe in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) to believe as the One and the Only Ilah/Deity and Rabb/Lord. And not to associate with Him a creation as partner Ilah/Rabb as an inferior, equal, or superior Ilah/Rabb. And not ascribe to any creation His attributes in meanings/details which are absolutely unique to Him. This is Tawheed. To ascribe to Him a partner inferior, equal, superior Ilah/Rabb is Shirk. And to ascribe to a creation one, or more, or all of His attributes in meanings/details which are unique to Him alone is Shirk. And Istighathah does not warrant Shirk according to any of these details neither does seeking help from angels warrant Shirk because conditions of Shirk have not been met. Mushrikeen believed angels, Jinn, and righteous men of earlier times are their Ilahs and worshipped them hence their major Shirk is proven. Truth is Wahhabi scam understanding labelled as Tawheed/Shirk and their methodology to determine each is in reality connected with Kharijism and not with Islam. It is on basis of Khariji methodology of determining Tawheed/Shirk that Wahhabis have argued Istighathah is Shirk. This logic/reasoning is, seeking help is of only Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) just as worship if of Him alone, hence to seek help of other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Shirk. They say Istighathah is seeking help which only Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is able to provide hence to engage in it is Shirk. The Muslims say seeking any help be it natural/supernatural is Shirk IF it is sought from an Ilah other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) just as worship of another Ilah beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Shirk. 104 - Wahhabi Tawheed/Shirk Understanding Glimpse Of Kharijism: In order to avoid bloodshed between Muslims Ali (radiallah ta’ala anhu) and Muawiyah (radiallah ta’ala anhu) appointed judges/arbiters to judge between them. The Khawarij opposed decision of Ali (radiallah ta’ala anhu) arguing judgment is only right of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). And I suppose they believed this on foundation that al-Hakim is only Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and therefore to appoint anyone to judge between two parties means right of judgment and title of al-Hakim has been given to creation hence Shirk. This is methodology which Wahhabis employ to judge Tawheed/Shirk and this is only way the Kharijis could argue companions have committed major Shirk. To appoint judges/arbiters i.e. Hakims and to believe there are Hakims within creation of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is not Shirk primarily because Shirk requires al-Ilahiyyah to be coupled with al-Hakimiyyah. And secondarily there are Hakims and Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is best al-Hakim out of Hakims: “Is Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) not the best of Judges?” [Ref: 95:8] Other than Wahhabi methodology of determining Shirk there is way of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah but first we refute Kharijism. We respond to Khawarij saying that to judge by what Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) revealed and resulting judgement is His judgment. It is so in the same way as He gives you Rizq but it is through creation. In the same way when a creation gives you Rizq/apple but it is Allah (subhanahu wa taa’ala) who has provided you with Rizq. According to Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah to believe there is an Ilah as al-Hakim other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Shirk. The companions did not believe the judges were Ilah partners of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) hence Khariji charge of Shirk was not based on methodology of Ahus Sunnah Wal Jammah but it can only be in accordance with Wahhabi methodology of determining Shirk. Sharing understanding of Tawheed/Shirk and methodology to determine is not the only connection Wahhabism has with Kharijism the roots go much deeper. Please refer to section 111/112 to see the deeper connection of Wahhabism with Kharijism. 105 - Calling Upon Gods Is Calling Satan, Worship Of Satan Is Idol-Gods Worship: (i) IF you have read the discussion so far you will be aware founder of Wahhabism, i.e. Shaykh al-Najd Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, and his Wahhabis have accused Muslims of Arabian Peninsula and world in general of engaging in major Shirk on basis of their practice of Istighathah and other practices. And this discussion has exposed Wahhabism and has established Wahhabis have no leg to stand on regarding their accusations of Shirk and Kufr but this is not end all. The best of speech is book of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and best of guidance, refutation of Wahhabism, and evidence of its deviation is from Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is on record saying he is not afraid his Muslim-Ummah associating others as gods with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and on record saying his Muslim-Ummah will not worship sun, moon, idols, and stones. Despite this assurance by Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) and clear evidence defending of Tawheed of Muslims Wahhabis believe and teach against what the last and final Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) taught. (ii) Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said: “Narrated An-Nu'man Ibn Bashir: The Prophet said: Supplication (Dua) is itself the worship. (He then recited) "And your Lord said: Call on Me, I will answer you." (40:60).” [Ref: Abu Dawud, B8, H1474, here.] This Hadith gives us rule: Invocation is worship and worship is invocation. (iii) Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) said: “(The Mushrikeen) leaving Him (Allah) call but upon females (goddesses): They call but upon Satan the persistent rebel!” [Ref: 4:117] This verse gives us principle: Calling upon gods/goddesses other than Allah is calling upon Satan. (iv) Prophet Ibrahim (alayhis salam) said: "O my father! Worship not Satan for Satan is a rebel against ar-Rahman.” [Ref: 19:44] To understand the verse properly we have to apply two principles. Understand that Prophet Ibrahim (alayhis salam) said to his father; my father do not call upon Satan. Second principle established from verse Q4:1117 states calling upon goddesses/gods other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is worship of Satan and in this context Prophet Ibrahim (alayhis salam) said; my father do not invoke idols/gods beside Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). In short worship of idols, gods and goddesses other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is considered as worship of Satan just as calling goddesses is calling of Satan. Following commentators have explicitly stated idol worship is Satan worship, or Satan worship is idol worship, here, here, here, here, and here. In the following it was said that words of Prophet Ibrahim (alayhis salam) were an exaggeration of reality, here, to convey effect that reality of idol-worship is Satan-worship because it is obedience of Satan. 106 - Satan Will Despair In Regards To Muslims Engaging In Worship OF Idol-Gods: On the farewell pilgrimage address Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) addressed many things and one issue he addressed was Shirk. He said Satan has give-up on trying to make Muslims worship him/Satan in Arabian Peninsula: “It was narrated from Sulaiman bin ‘Amr bin Ahwas that his father said: “I heard the Prophet () say, during the Farewell Pilgrimage: ‘O people! Which day is the most sacred?’ three times. They said: ‘The day of the greatest Hajj.’ He said: ‘Your blood and your wealth and your honor are sacred to one another, as sacred as this day of yours, in this land of your. No sinner commits a sin but it is against himself. No father is to be punished for the sins of his child, and no child is to be punished for the sins of his father. Satan has despaired of ever being worshipped in this land of yours, but he will be obeyed in some matters which you regard as insignificant, and he will be content with that. All the blood feuds of the Ignorance days are abolished, and the first of them that I abolish is the blood feud of Harith bin ‘Abdul-Muttalib, who ...” [Ref: Ibn Majah, Vol1, B25, H3055] We know in language of Quran worship of Satan is worship of idol-gods hence the Hadith means Satan has given-up trying to revert the Muslims to worshipping idols/gods other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said but Satan will be obeyed in some matters and following Hadith tells we will obey him and fall into dissension/disagreements and dislike of each other: "Jabir reported: I heard Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: Verily, the Satan has lost all hopes that the worshippers would ever worship (him) in the peninsula of Arabia, but he (is hopeful) that he would sow the seed of dissension amongst them." [Ref: Muslim, B39, H6752] “Jabir narrated that the Messenger of Allah said: ‘Indeed Ash-Shaitan has despaired of getting those who perform Salat to worship him. But he is engaged in sowing hatred among them.’" [Ref: Tirmadhi, B1, H1937] In other words Satan will not try to and will not succeed in reverting Muslims of Arabia major Shirk i.e. taking creation as gods and worshipping them. He will try issues which we will consider minor issues to cause disagreements between Muslims and he will have success in this and Satan will be satisfied with this little victory: “…but he will be obeyed in some matters which you regard as insignificant, and he will be content with that.” [Ref: Ibn Majah, Vol1, B25, H3055] 107 - Impossibility Of Ummah Falling Into According To Prophetic Teaching: Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said he is not afraid his Ummah would associate others as gods/goddesses with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala😞 “By Allah! I am not afraid that you will associate with Allah (i.e. idol-gods as partners to worship them) after my death, but I am afraid that you will compete with one another for the worldly things." [Ref: Bukhari, B23, H428] Same is stated in another Hadith: “Narrated Uqba bin Amir: Allah's Messenger offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud eight years after (their death), as if bidding farewell to the living and the dead, then he ascended the pulpit and said: ‘I am your predecessor before you, and I am a witness on you, and your promised place to meet me will be Al- Haud (on the Day of Resurrection), and I am (now) looking at it from this place of mine. I am not afraid that you will worship others besides Allah, but I am afraid that worldly life will tempt you and cause you to compete with each other for it.’ That was the last look which I cast on Allah's Messenger.” [Ref: Bukhari, B59, H374, here.] Wahhabis say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) used word, you/kum, and this is referrence to companions only. This ambiguity is removed in another Hadith Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said Ummah will not commit major Shirk but instead will engage in minor Shirk: “The thing that I fear most for my Ummah is associating others with Allah. I do not say that they will worship the sun or the moon or idols, but deeds done for the sake of anyone other than Allah, and hidden desires.” [Ref: Ibn Majah, Vol.1 B37, H4205] Minor Shirk called Shirk ar-Riya Shirk of show-off. Performing acts of worship in an attempt to gain acceptance approval of creation is Shirk of Riya. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) feared his Ummah would engage in minor Shirk but he did not fear that we his Ummah would take other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) as Ilahs/gods beside Him. What he doesn’t fear it is because it will not take place and what he feared is will take place. 108 – And Establishing Evidence Argument Against Wahhabism: Wahhabism originated in Arabia with belief/charge that most/all of inhabitants of Arabia were guilty of major Shirk except Wahhabis thus non-believers and killing whom is Halal. This Wahhabi belief and the resulting slaughter is against the prophetic teaching because Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) told Muslim-worshipers will not fall into idol-worship in Arabia and he said his Ummah will not worship sun, moon, idols, in one Hadith worship of stones is also negated, here. Founder of Wahhabism charged Muslims of Arabia of being Mushrikeen and Kafireen countless reasons but one was practice of Istighathah. It was established Muslims of Arabian Peninsula and Ummah in general would not and cannot fall into idolatry thus we have defended Iman, Islam, life, property of Muslims by establishing practice of Istighathah is in accordance with understanding of Tawheed and it is not Shirk. IF it was Shirk than prophetic statement would be falsified and Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) did not lie nor does the One issuing Wahi lied. And by default anyone holding to and sharing creed of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah of Arabian Peninsula is upon Tawheed even though the Kafireen dislike this statement of truth. 109 - Wahhabis Distort Ahadith Apply Ahadith Of Kafirs Upon Muslims: Wahhabis have various Ahadith on basis of which they argue Muslims have already fallen into Shirk but all these Ahadith are about Arab disbelievers/Kafireen reverting to idolatry and specifically to worship of idols which their ancestors worshipped but this will take place after death of every single Muslim has taken place. Following article responds to the Wahhabis and proves their Ahadith are about Kafirs and not Muslims, here. And this next article establishes major Shirk will only return to Arabia after death of all Muslims which will be caused by cold, musky, fragrant wind, here. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) will cause the death of all Muslims/Momins with the afore mentioned wind and Arabia and world in general will fall into idolatry once again as it was before Islam. This death of Muslims will take place because Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has promised the Mushrikeen that he will bring a great destruction upon them for disbelieving in His message and Messenger, here, here. Following two articles comprehensively explain the two Ahadith I have employed above, here, and here. In conclusion Wahhabis have no evidence against Muslims and all they offer as evidence is distortion of Ahadith and complete misunderstanding of what the Hadith says. In truth Muslim Ummah and Arab Muslims will not fall into idol-worship in totality or in majority and Ahadith which Wahhabi employ explicitly state which idols will be worshipped and when - after death of every Muslim and Momin. 110 – Wahhabis Are Worse In Their Deviation Than Kharijis: Abdullah Ibn Umar (radiallah ta’ala anhu) deemed the Khawarij to be worst creatures in the creation of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because they apply verses revealed for disbelievers upon Muslims: “And the statement of Allah: 'Allah will not mislead a people after He has guided them, until He makes clear to them what to avoid.' (9:115) And Ibn Umar used to consider them (the Khawarij and the Mulhidun) the worst of Allah's creatures and said: "These people took some verses that had been revealed concerning the disbelievers and interpreted them as (if these verses are) describing the believers.” [Ref: Bukhari, Vol 9, Page 49, Chap 6: Killing Of The Khawarij.] “Abu Jafr al-Tabri in Kitab Tahzeeb ul-Athaar heard from; Yunus, Ibn Wahb, Amr Ibn al-Harith told me, Bakira (Ibn Abdullah bin A’shj) told me that he enquired/wondered what is opinion of Ibn Umar regarding Harurriyah (i.e. Khawarij). He said they are the worst of creatures in creation of Allah because they applied verses revealed for disbelievers upon righteous-believers.” [Ref: Taghleeq al-Ta’leeq Alas-Sahih ul-Bukhari, Vol5, Page259, here.] “’Ibn Umar considered the Khawarij and the heretics as the worst beings in creation, and he said: They went to verses which were revealed about the disbelievers and applied them to the Believers.’ Imam Tabri (rahimullah) has mentioned this Hadith in Musnad of Ali with the chain of Bakeer in Abdullah in Tahdhib al-Athaar. He asked Nafi what was the opinion of Abdullah Ibn Umar (radiallah ta’ala anhu) regarding Harurriyah (Khawarij). He (Nafi) replied: ‘He (Ibn Umar) used to consider them worst creations of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because they applied Ayaat revealed for disbelievers on believers.’ He (Imam Ibn Hajr al Asqalani) said: This Hadith has SAHIH chain. It is also proven from the Sahih Marfu Hadith of Imam Muslim which he narrated from Abu Dhar (radiallah ta’ala anhu) in characteristics of Khawarij, the Hadith states: They are a creation of worst kind, and Imam Ahmed has also narrated a similar Hadith from Anas Bin Malik (rahimullah) with a strong chain. Imam Bazzar (rahimullah) has narrated the Hadith from Aisha (radiallah ta'ala anha) who narrates from Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) that he said: They will be the worst of my Ummah and they will be killed by the best of my Ummah, The chain of this Hadith is “Hassan.” [Ref: Fath ul-Bari, Sharh Sahih ul Bukhari, Vol 16, Pages168/1699, Published by Dar Taybah, Beirut, Lebanon, here.] Wahhabis not only distort the verses of Quran and apply them upon Muslims but they distort the Hadith which are about Kafirs and apply them upon Muslims living long before the wind has blown. 111 - What Prophet Say About Wahhabism/Wahhabis And Land Of Their Origin: Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) had foretold group of Satan i.e. Qarn ash’Shaytaan would appear from East, here, and in another Hadith he refused to invoke Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) for Najd because it is land of group of Satan, here. And this group of Satan is a group of people with shaven heads, here, here. First Hadith out of two is about Khawarij in general and second Hadith is specific to Khariji sect to appear from Najd and from progeny of Dhil Khuwaisirah. There are two groups of Satan in direction of sunrise i.e. East of Madinah [in region of Najd] and they are Banu Rabia and Banu Mudhar, here, here. First Khariji sect originated in Iraq but the man was mainly from Banu Tamim which was located in central Arabia in region of Najd. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) has been granted Jawami al-Kalim, i.e. short expression bearing widest meaning possible, here. Ahadith referenced earlier are about first Khariji sect in general and evidence of second major offshoot of Kharijism in specific and specifically about a Khariji sect which was to originate from Najd and out of descendants of Dhul Khuwaisira, i.e. Hurqus Ibn Zuhayr, here, here, and here. Dhul Khuwaisirah was part of first Khariji sect and a figure head amongst Khawarij of Iraq. His associates were so pious that Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said even his own companions will be ashamed of their Taqwa/piety, here, when they will encounter associates of Dhul Khuwaisirah. He also said they will kill Muslims but will leave the Mushriks alone, here. Kharijis were/are outwardly very pious and seemed to be acting on teaching of Islam. Hence none from them would kill a Muslim without an invalid pretext which they deem valid grounds to kill Muslims. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said they will recite Quran but it would not enter their hearts, here, and truth of this is attested to by Abdullah Ibn Umar (radiallah ta’ala anhu) who said about Khawarij: “And the statement of Allah: 'Allah will not mislead a people after He has guided them, until He makes clear to them what to avoid.' (9:115) And Ibn Umar used to consider them (the Khawarij and the Mulhidun) the worst of Allah's creatures and said: "These people took some verses that had been revealed concerning the disbelievers and interpreted them as (if these verses are) describing the believers.” [Ref: Bukhari, Vol 9, Page 49, Chap 6: Killing Of The Khawarij.] Heart is organ on which Quran was revealed upon and it holds the capacity to understand it hence it must reach it to understand it. Due to lack of proper understanding Khawarij applied verses revealed regarding disbelievers and their deities upon Muslims and Prophets and righteous-believers. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said in a Hadith group of Kufr is in East, here, and this was said about Khawarij in general and Wahhabis in specific. 112 - How Ahadith Apply To Wahhabis And What Is Established: Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, al-Najdi, at-Tamimi was born in Najd, and he is a descendant of Dhul Khuwaisirah at-Tamimi. Shaykh Sulayman Ibn Abdul Wahhab elder brother of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab refuted Shaykh al-Najd and wrote in his book, al-Sawa’iq al-Ilahiyyah Fi al-Radd A’lal Wahhabiyyah, that Shaykh al-Najd is originator of group of Satan which was foretold to appear from Najd, here. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) foretold Khawarij of Najd will kill Muslims, Shaykh al-Najd legalised the killing, and Wahhabis killed Muslims without impunity. Abusing a Muslim is Fisq (i.e. act of disobedience) and killing him is act of Kufr, here. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said Khawarij would be in East with shaven heads. Imam Ibn Hajar (rahimullah) said regarding shaving of heads: “Certainly the norm amongst the Khawarij was to shave their heads bald. The pious predecessors allowed the hair to grow in length and did not shave. It is the way of Khawarij (to shave the hair).” [Ref: Fath ul-Bari Sharh, Volume 8, Pages 68/69.] First wave Wahhabis shaved their heads completely bald and practice has gradually weakened but still predominantly sign of Wahhabis in Muslim countries. Those in Western countries and those influenced by Westernisation have pretty much abandoned shaving of heads. Ibn Abbas (radiallah ta’ala anhu) told us Khawarij apply verses revealed regarding Mushrikeen/Kafireen upon Muslims and this is speciality of Wahhabism. My challenge is to pick any book written by any Wahhabi aimed at establishing Tawheed and refuting Shirk and you will witness wholesale disbeliever verses applied upon Muslims to prove they are Mushrikeen/Kafireen. This point alone is enough to establish Wahhabis are Khawarij in their methodology of interpreting Quran and Sunnah. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) named Banu Mudhar and Banu Rabia as two groups of Satan. here, here. Vast majority of original Kharijis, their theological leadership and political leadership, belonged to these two tribes. Founder of Wahhabism Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was from Banu Tamim which is an off-shoot of Banu Mudhar. The Saud family traces its roots back to Mani al-Muraydi through Rabia or Banu Rabia. In was in early 1700s that both Shaykh al-Najd and Ibn Saud joined forces and not only started another Khariji sect but also a Khariji state today known as Saudi Arabia. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) anticipated emergence of Khawarij so he said: “Three things are the roots of faith: (i) To refrain from (killing) a person who says “there is no Deity except Allah” (ii) Not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits (iii) and also not to declare him out of Islam due to any of his action/deed.” [Ref: Abu Dawud, B14, H2170] Shaykh al-Najd legalised and Wahhabis like Kharijis killed Muslims who openly and clearly professed, la ilaha il-Allah i.e. there is no Deity except Allah. Wahhabis like Kharijis declared the Muslims as disbelievers for actions which were major sin such as prostrating out of respect to Saliheen. And Wahhabis like Kharijis declared people out of Islam for actions which they did not approve of. Wahhabis declared Muslims out of Islam on actions such as Istighathah, prostration out of respect to creation, visitation of graves of Saliheen and other practices. They nullified all three conditions of Iman and Islam, and there is no Iman or Islam after nullifying all three. This is why Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said group of Kufr is in East i.e. in Najd, here. All this establishes Wahhabism is an off-shoot of original Khariji apostasy. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said Kharijis and Wahhabis would leave Islam like an arrow darts through a target. It means it will pass through target so quickly that after examination no sign of any remains will be found on arrow, here. It means upon close examination Muslim scholar will not find any sign of true belief in Islam on Khawarij despite their outward excessive piety. It also means they will leave Islam very quickly and cleanly like arrow leaves a target. It also means that they will not return to Islam like arrow does not return to the bow, here, here. Someone may say this is description of Khawarij of earlier times and I say Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said the same about Khawarij who would appear near the end of times, here, and Wahhabism one such group and more sub-sects will emerge from it till last one appears in time of Dajjal and joins him against Muslims: “Then he said: "A people will come at the end of time; as if he (Dhul Khuwaisirah) is one of them, reciting the Qur'an without it passing beyond their throats. They will go through Islam just as the arrow goes through the target. Their distinction will be shaving. They will not cease to appear until the last of them comes with Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. So when you meet them, then kill them, they are the worst of created beings." [Ref: Nisaee, B37, H4108, here.] You can see that the puppets will change but the dance will be same throughout centuries i.e. habits, practices, beliefs and methodology will be same. Just as there are many breeds of dogs but all are connected with certain common traits and qualities in the same way Kharijis are many sects but there are common traits which will remain common between them. These Khawarij are dogs of hell, here. And hence teachings, beliefs, practices and traits all establish Wahhabis are Khawarij and group of Kufr which was to emerge from East and Najd. 113- Hijaz And West Dominant Over Kafireen Of East And Najd: Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) in one Hadith said: “The callousness of heart and sternness is in the East [meaning Najd] and faith is among the people of the Hijaz [meaning West].” [Ref: Muslim, B1, H95] And in another East is where group of Kufr exists, here. We know Wahhabism originated from Najd from East of Madinah and we have clear proof that Shaykh al-Najd declared all the inhabitants of Hijaz are Mushrikeen/Kafireen: "It's known regarding the people of our land and the land of al-Hijaz, that those among them who reject the resurrection (after death) are more than those who accept it and that those (among them) who know the religion are less than those who do not ..." [Ref: al-Durar al-Saniyya, Volume 10, Page 43, Trnslted by Abu Sulayman, here.] In general Wahhabis considered all Muslims of Arabia including residents of Hijaz region of Arabia other than their own as Mushrikeen. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said Hijaz i.e. West: “The people of the West will continue to triumphantly follow the truth until the Hour is established.” [Ref: Muslim, B20, H4722] Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) said people of West will hold to truth of Islam and this is important because opposite of West is East. And this Hadith indirectly insinuates East of Madinah and West of Najd will be at odds with each other but West will be dominant and will hold to truth victoriously: “The callousness of heart and sternness is in the East [meaning Najd] and faith is among the people of the Hijaz [meaning West].” [Ref: Muslim, B1, H95] Hijaz was and is predominantly a Sunni persuasion with a minority of Shias and even lesser of Wahhabis. And truth of Islam will remain dominant over the disbelievers of Najd and Khawarij who abandoned Islam. It is undeniable originally the battle with between Muslims and Wahhabis was struggle between Wahhabis of East and Muslims in West of Arabia. Conclusion: The discussion as whole is a brilliant source for those Muslims who want to properly understand the disagreement between Muslims and Khawarij on subject of Istighathah. It is unfortunate that discussion ended on a bad note and partly I am responsible for this. Shaytan clouded my judgment and made me vindictive and angry. Result was that I took the course of destructive criticism which landed the brother in hot waters. I had to really struggle with myself to publish some of the content but I decided to do so is better than not because it established long held notion that Khawarij have disrespecting attitude in regards to Prophets and saints. I have also established that Wahhabism and Wahhabis are an off-shoot of Khariji apostasy and it is the group of Kufr in East. And as concrete refutation of Wahhabism it was also established Muslim-Ummah as whole and over-whelming majority will not fall into Shirk and Arabian Peninsula in specific and Muslim lands in general will remain free from major Shirk until death of Muslims. It is upon you to remember learn and protect your Iman. I have delivered the message to best of my ability. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) said he does misguide a nation and its persons until He has provided them guidance telling them what they should engage in and establishing what they need abstain from. Wama Alayna Ilal Balagh ul-Mubeen. Muhammed Ali Razavi.

Dawah tumara toh thah kay Pir Sahib nay Qasim Nanotavi ko momin mantay thay. Aur yeh daleel heh tumaray daway ki? Is say sabat huwa kay Pir Sahib rehmatullah kay mutabiq Qasim Nanotavi Momin thah? Daway in kay uchi ur'ran, patang walay, In kay dalail par kia kahoon, hen yeh Deoband walay.

Salam alayqum, Jazakallah khayr, ilfaaz omitt ho gahay typing kay doran, aap woh delete kar denh apni quote say.

Salam alayqum bai, Wazahat mein bi kar sakta thah magar in ka maqsood ilm hasil nahin. Yeh Haq, Bella, Saif, sirf is wastay ahay hen kay fasad phela saken. In ko kia pata kay in ki fasadi harkaten gadday kay makhsoos uzoo kee tara hen joh barti hee ja rahi hen. Shahid yeh tawaqoh kar rahay hen ham in ko Zaman Ali Muradabadi ki tara in kay pechay danda denh gay aur agay say kohi Deobandi pakr kar kenchay ga, aur Deobandiyoon ki fauj hogi aur kehti hogi, chawal hen, yeh teeno chawal hen yeh phir kaam o patay ki baat karen gay. Abh in ko kia pata kay, yeh kam toh Deobandi kar saktay hen aur karwa saktay hen. Abh shahid in ko meri bateh ghaleez lagen, magar yeh Thanvi ya joh bi ghaleez banda thah, jis nay yeh apni kitaboon mein likha, in ko us say shikwa hona chahyeh, keun kay mein nay toh joh marifat o haqiqat ki bateh in kay awaliyah ki pareen hen, us ka asar toh muj par hoga kay nahin. Is say pehlay yeh mujjay kuch kahen, pehlay apnay mawlvi ki kabr par jaa kar kin kar sau, 100, pura sekra, litr maren aur lanat behij kar poochen, khabees banday tuj mein itni ghalazat kahan say aahi aur kesay yeh likh beta. Toh phir mein bi sharminda hoon ga. Magar yeh esa karen gay nahin, keun kay shahid agay say woh kahay, kambakht yeh toh Deobandi mahol o tehzeeb thee, yeh toh hamara orna bichona thah, kesay nah likhta. Deoband ka official tarana - meri taraf say: Fail qaum e Loot Nanotavi karay, Qasim Ul gand walay In ko ghalazat say piyar heh, yeh hen Deoband walay, Nah in ko sharm o haya heh, jhoot o nanga walay Bachoon ki salwar utaren, yeh hen Deoband walay, Gustakhi in ki shaan heh, kaam in kay oot patang walay, Aqeeda in ka gadday ki uzuu jesa, yeh hen Deoband walay

Mein yeh batan bhool gaya kay Nanotavi aur Qadiyani mein munazra hota toh kon jheet-ta. Meri tehqeeq kay mutabiq Qadiyani Nanotavi ko chit kar kay leta deta, aur saath ashiq e sadiq kee tera leth jata aur Nanotavi kay seenay par piyar baray tareeqay say haath phirta, aur mujjay yaqeen heh Qasim Nanotavi sharmata bi nah.

Ahle Haq, kabi Kafir bi Ahle Haq huwa kartay hen? Misaal kay tor par, tum Deobandi aur Qadiyani munazra karo, aur Khatim e Nubuwat par, aur tum haar jaho, toh Islam ki haar nahin hogi, Deobandiat ki haar hogi keun kay, tumaray mazhab aur Qadiyani mazhab ki talimat mein kohi farq nahin, ek Deobandi nay likha, agar baad e zaman e Nabi aur kohi peda ho toh khatimiyat mein farq nahin parta, aur Qadiyani nay likha, mein Nabi peda ho gaya hoon, aur Khatimiat mein farq nahin para. Qasim Nanotavi nay Ambiyan ki Nabuwat ko zill i.e. shadow likha aur RasoolAllah ki Nabuwat ko Asal likha, Mirza nay Zilli Nabuwat apnay upar qaim kar leeh aur Zilli nabi ban betha. Mirza nay buruzi Nabi honay ka dawa keeya. Shahid mein ghalti par hoon, par zan heh kay Qasim Nanotavi nay Nabuwat ko aqs bi likha. buruz (projection) aqs (image) ki hee hoti heh. Itni kuch munasbat tumari Deobandiat mein aur Qadiyaniat mein, yehni donoon firqa ek hee hen, ek shoe heh aur dosra feet, yehni ek jhooti aur dosra us mein gusna wala pahoon. Aur Khatam e Nabuwat par mein apna imaan sabat karoon. Deobandi bewaqoof, yeh agar kohi mujjay musalman kehta toh mein zeroor koshish bi karta, apna muwaqif pesh karta, magar Deobandi/Qadiyani Kafir mujjay kahay kay mein apna Islam sabat karoon esa heh jesay, Hindu Musalman ko kahay kay Tawheed par apna imaan sabat karo. Jistera Hindu ko jaiz nahin kay woh musalman ko challenge karay kay tum apna aqeedah e Tawheed sabat karo warna musalman nahin, issee tera Qadiyaniyoon ki jhooti tum ko bi haq nahin kay tooh musalman say mutalba karay kay woh apna aqeedah e khatim e nabuwat sabat karay. Mawlana Ashraf Sialvi rahimullah nay kaheen par bi essi kohi baat nahin likhi jis say un par yeh ilzam lagaya gaya jahay. Aur kissi bi Ahle Sunnat kay Aalim nay un par yeh ilzam nahin lagaya, nah Kufr ka hokam lagaya, aur nah zeroorat peri. Yeh abh tum sirf apni rawayati Deobandi bey-hayahi par utar ahay ho. Is waja say Khalil Ahmad Ambethvi ki tara, aur Hussain Ahmad Midhani ki tara jhoot gar gar kar Ahle Sunnat kay naam laga rahay ho. Murtaza Hassan Darbangi nay toh kohi 15 kitaben gar gar kay Ulamah e Ahle Sunnat say mansoob keen. Un mein ghaliban ek doh toh Sayyidi Ala Hazrat aur un kay walid say bi mansoob kar betha. Tum bi apnay baroon ki sunnat par khoob amal karo aur apnay nama amaal mein aur jahannum ki aag baro, in sha Allah, Firawn ki tara Kafir aur dhoob maro gay. Teray muqabil mein nahin, teri jang to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala kay saath heh, aur in sha'allah teray khandan mein zillat pehlay gi, behan, bahiyoon, betay aur betiyoon kay zereeyeh Allah teri izzat ko khaaq milahay ga. Allah tummeh zaleel o ruswa karay ga aur dua heh kay Allah tum itna zaleel o khawar karay teri betiyoon aur behnoon say kay tooh mawt mangay magar teri umar daraz ho is zillat mein, ameen.

Yeh loh, abh dekhi nah Thanvi ki bey-hayahi. Yeh ghalazat tumara warsa heh. Itni bey-haya toh kohi tawahif bi kabi nah huwi hogi Pakistan o Hind mein jitna aap ka yeh Maulvi heh. Abhi toh Zaman Ali kay peechay danda wali baat ka zikr nahin aya. Aur Tawaifen ka mureed honay walay waqia ka zikr nahin aya, aur karnay wala kon karanay wala kon ka zikr nahin aya. Aur Tawahif ka tumaray maulvi kay moon par peshab karnay walay waqia ka zikr nahin aya. Musalmanoon nay toh sirf tumari kufriat par ikhtisar keeya huwa heh, agar tumaray firqay ki bey-hayahi ka logoon kay batahen toh logh tumari Deobandiat ko chor kar, lashkar kay lashkar Islam qubul kar lenh. Magar hamari ghalti kay ham nay is ka logoon ko bataya nahin.

Qadiyani aur Nanotavi mein munazra ho toh kon jeetay?

Jhootay par Allah ki lanat. Teri maan nay tujjay jann kar shaytaan ko sajday keeyeh hoon gay, kay teray jesay dajjal aur kazzab beta meray ghar mein bi peda ho gaya heh. Jhoot bolna Deobandiyoon ki fitrat heh. Kabi sach ki bunyad par kuch likhna mat, warna Iblees say agay ho jaho gay. 7 itnay nangay jhoot kay tum ko peda karnay wali ko be sharm aa gahi hogi. Tum ko sharam bi aahi heh ya nahin? Sawal: Kia Allah ek heh? Aur us kay siwa kohi aur ibadat kay laykh nahin, darust heh ya nahin?

Moderators, action lenh ya nah lenh, meray is sawal par zeroor action lo aur jawab doh: Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani VS Qasim Nanotavi - in donoon mein munazra khatim un nabiyeen, aur Nabi kay peda honay par ho, kon munazra jheetay? Tum apnay iman kay mutabiq fesla karo kay donoon mein kon munazra jheeta?

Mujjay yeh bataho kay: - Qasim Nanotavi nay Khatim Un Nabiyeen kay mana ki taweel keun baaz nah aya? - Qasim Nanotavi Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani ka stepping stool bannay say baaz keun na aya? - Haq Nawaz Jhangvi Ahle Islam kay khilaaf zehr gohi say baaz keun aaya? - Manzoor Nomani midaan e munazra say bhagnay say baaz keun na aya? - Qasim Nanotavi ko homosexual activities karnay say baaz keun nah aya? - Qasim Nanotavi bachoon ki salwaren tamashay wastay, beech madrassay utarnay say baaz keun nah aya?

Ghar waloon nay tameez sikhahi thee magar tumaray firqay mein reh kar bad-tameezi aur gustakhi bi seekh li. Joh banda Allah kay Nabiyoon waliyoon kay gustakhoon ka difa karay aur parlay darjay kay maulvi joh fail e qaum e Loot karen, yehni ek maulvi dosray maulvi kay upar char jahay aur woh bi madrassay mein aur bachoon kay samnay aur joh bachoon ki salwaren madrassay mein utara karen, un maulviyoon aur bey-haya bandoon kay mannay walay ko kesay haq pounchta heh kay woh muj say poochay kay tameez sikha'i gahai heh ya nahin. Agar kohi tumari salwar school mein ya bazaar mein ya madrassay mein utarta toh bataho tum kesay feel kartay? Tum nay kabi yeh sawal keeya, kay Qasim Nanotavi keun is mauvli par char gaya aur ashiq e sadiq kee tara homosexual actions karnay laga? Tum nay kabi socha kay in doh bey-haya mauvliyoon ko ghar mein tameez sikhahi gahi thee ya nahin? Ya Madrassa mein ustadoon ko sharm o haya ki aur tazeebi aur bad-tazeebi ki tameez thee ya nahin? Kabi yeh baten bi soochi? Kabi esay bey-haya maulviyoon par malamat ki. Kabi socha ke in kay kartoot ghar mein apnay behan bahiyoon kay saath kesay huway hoon gay? Joh majlis mein esa karay woh gar mein aur parday mein kia kia gul khilata hoga? Misaal kay tor par tumaray saath bi kohi mard let'ta jistera Qasim Nanotavi Ashiq e sadiq ki tara leta aur tuamray seenay par be ashiq e sadiq kee tara haath phirta toh tum bataho, tum ko haya nahin aahay gi? Aahay gi nah! Aur joh haath phir raha heh us ko nah ahay toh ... andaza karo woh kitna bey-haya aur homosexual huwa hoga. Esa banda kabi Qasim Ul Uloom ho sakta heh? Khud zara soch loh. Yeh tumaray gharoon, madrassoon, mauvliyoon ki tehzeeb heh jis ki pechaan ki abhi tummeh tameez nahin aahi. Hifz Ul Iman, Taqwiyatul Iman, Sirat e Mustaqeem kabi parh kar dekhna, tumari tehzeeb aur tameez ka tum ko be pata chal jahay ga. Shukr karo meray pass time nahin warna Murtaza Hassan Darbangi ki tameez kay chan namoonay pesh karta.

Us nay Deobandiyoon kay khilaf agar 100 keeyeh hotay toh puray 100 jheet jata, shukr karo esa nahin huwa. Warna woh tumaray maulviyon ka peshab nikalta. Jab taq Qasim Nanotavi ki Tahzir Un Naas thee, Mirza tum logoon say kabi bi ek munazra nah harta. Balkay mujjay yaqeen heh woh tumaray maulviyoon ko apni nabuwat ka qail kar leta, jesa huwa heh.

Mirza nay toh Arya Samajh aur Christians say munazray keeyeh, jheetnay harnay ki khabr mujjay toh nahin magar us ka jheet jana kohi impossible baat nahin. Keun kay dalahil un kay khilaf toh Quran o Ahadith say huway hoon gay. Aur jheet Islam ki jheet heh, waseela shahid mirza qadiyani bana ho. Khatamun Nabiyeen kay band darwazay ka tala Mirza Qasim Ghulam Nanotavi kholay aur baaz ham aahen. Khatim un nabiyeen bamana aakhiri nabi kay munkir tum logh aur baaz ham aahen. Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani nay Qasim Nanotavi ko step ladder bana kar aur qasim Nanotavi kay upar pahoon rakh kar nabuwat kay stage par chara aur baaz ham aahen. tum logoon mein kohi sharm o haya ki bi cheez heh ya bay-ghayrti par fitrat jama chukay ho? Mujjay yeh batataho, Nanatovi nay Khatim Un Nabiyeen kay inqaar say baaz keun nah aya? Manzoor Nomani jubba, dastar, kutub, enak, jhootay, chor kar baagnay say baaz keun nah ayah? Aur aakhar mein Haq Nawaz Jhangvi munazra jhang kay baad Ahle Islam kay khilaaf propaganda say baaz keun aya? Mawlana Ashraf Sialvi rahimullah alayhi ta'ala nay Nabi honay kay mozoo par khata kha'i aur un ka nazria qabil e muzammat thah aur heh. Magar janab baat toh Mawlana Ashraf Sehalvi ki aur Haq Nawaz ki heh. Bicharay Haq Nawaz ko itna zaleel o ruswa keeya kay us nay ahle islam kay khilaf kabi phir na bola. Pata thah Mawlana Ashraf Sehalvi rahimullah say phir wasta paray ga aur phir salwar geeli hogi peshab say, is say behtr heh chup hi kar jahoon warna joh thori izzat rehti heh woh bi salwar mein beh jahay ge.

Maulana Ashraf Sehalvi rahimullah munazir thay, Maulvi Tahir Ul Qadri munazir nahin thah. Aur Maulvi Tahir Ul Qadri kay khilaf Ulamah e Ahle Sunnat jin wujuhat say huway un ka talluq munazireh say nahin thah aur nah heh. Magar joh zillat aur ruswahi Maulvi Haq Nawaz ki huwi us ka talluq zeroor munazray say thah aur heh aur rahay ga. Mein pehlay hi keh chuka hoon sharm mehsoos nah karo toh buri nahin lagti aur tum nay toh kabi mehsoos hi nahin ki. Maulvi Haq Nawaz ko Allah ta'ala nay Kufr par mawt di aur Kafir Shaheed nahin hota yeh tummeh wehm heh. Munazra Jang ka hammeh jawab denay ki zeroorat nahin, keun kay Munazray mein hi Maulana Ashraf Sehalvi rahimullah nay khoob jawab deeyeh thay. Aur esay khoob kay Maulvi Haq Nawaz Jhangvi nay sari zindgi Ahle Islam kay khilaaf kabi phir moon nah khola. Tum logh ab yeh sab kuch is waja say kar rahay ho keun kay tum ko Deobandiat ki zillat o ruswahi o Kufriat par parda dalna heh. Tabi toh 42 saal bad tum logh is koshish mein masroof ho kay apni zillat bari shikast ko jheet mein badla ja sakkay. Aur jab taq audio recording mojood hen tumari yeh koshish kabi kamyab nahin hog. Wesay mujjay yeh bataho kay Maulvi Manzoor Nomani, Munazra Bareilly mein, Mawlana Sardar Ahmad rahimullah kay muqabileh mein keyun baag gaya thah? Apna imamah, enak, kitaben, aur jhootay, aasa, waghera chor kar keun baag gaya thah? Wudu ka bahana banaya aur dewaar phalang gaya thah. Us ka saab maal abhi tak maal e ghaneemat kay tor par Bareilly Shareef mein mojood heh. Trophy. Is say bar kar kia zillat hogi kay banda apna sara samaan chor kar aur wuzu kay bahanay baag jahay.

Abh jaag jah, sotay huway bot chavlen mar leenh hen. Mawlana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi ko Mawlana Ashraf Sehalvi rahimullah alayhi ta'ala nay istera seedha keeya jistera Muhaddith Sardar Ahmad rahimullah nay Mawlana Manzoor Nomani ko seedha keeya. Tumaray donoon Mawlviyoon kay Musalman Ulamah nay istera bal nikalay kay phir sari zindgi ahle Islam kay khilaaf midaan mein nah aa sakkay. Mawlana Manzoor Nomani ki hawa esay nikali gaee kay joh un ka Madrassa Bareilly mein thah, magzine, donoon band ho gahay, aur Mawlana Manzoor Nomani par Allah ta'ala nay zillat o kufr kee esi mohr lagahi kay phir ahle Islam kay khilaaf kabi taqreer bi nah kar sakka munazra toh door ki baat. Mawlana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi Sahib, kay mutaliq mashoor thah kay woh subho masjid kay speaker par charta thah aur ahle Islam kay khilaaf zehr ugalna shoroon karta thah, aur do-pehr taq jari rakhta, magar Allah ta'ala nay Mawlana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi ko zaleel o ruswa keeya aur munazray kay baad es'si bolti band huwi, kay phir ahle Islam kay khilaaf kuch nah kar sakka, balkay Shia kay peechay par gaya aur Islam ko chor kar Kufr par mara. Abh idhar aa kar be-sharmoon ki tara deeghen maro. Tumaray leyeh yahi kafi heh, apnay aap ko pagal banahay rakho. Woh kehtay hen, kay besti aur sharm agar mehsoos nah karo toh buri nahin lagti, tum bi mehsoos mat karna warna haya aur sharm aahay gi.

Introduction: It is common knowledge that Khawarij decalred Muslims to be Kafirs for some major sins to which even the modern day followers of Kharijism agree. Unknown to the modern cult of Kharijism, lead by Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, and currently is lead by his descendents, they themselves are also guilty of same crime. They have protested their innocence with regards to being labelled a sub-sect of Khawarij of past. But the similarity between old Kharijism and its recent manifestation from Najd is too much to ignore. Considering their rejection of label, Khariji, and their protest of innocence, it is really important to establish the link between both these manifestations. Prostrating To Righteous Men: The Juhala (i.e. foolish folk) when they visit to graves of Saliheen some of them due to their excessive reverance for the deceased Shaykh prostrate to him. But Islam has prohibited prostration to all except Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and it is a major sin and there is Ijmah (i.e. communual agreement) on this. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is reported to have said: “Anas bin Malik said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah say: ‘My nation will not unite on misguidance, so if you see them differing, follow the great majority.’” [Ref: Ibn Majah, B36, H3950] The agreement of Ummah is proof of validity of position. There is disagreement if prostration of reverance to righteous men of Ummah is Shirk or not. And in this regard we have prophetic guidance to follow the majority of Muslim Ummah. Majority – composed of Ahlus Sunnah of past and present - holds to the understanding prostration to anyone other then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) out of reverance is major sin and major Shirk if done with intention of worship. Shaykh Of Najd On Prostration: Shaykh stated in a letter, in an attempt to justify his activities: “But I explain to people that they must devote their worship sincerely to Allah. I forbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and [forbade them] from associating them with Allah in any act of worship that should be done for Allah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one’s trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent.[1] Shaykh states he instructed people to direct their worship sinerely to Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). He says this because he is of belief that Muslims of Arabian Peninsula were directing acts of worship to other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). He then goes on to say, he forbade the Muslims from calling upon deceased Prophets and Awliyah-Allah[2] and from committing Shirk, due to them in His worship: “… and [forbade them] from associating them with Allah in any act of worship that should be done for Allah alone, …”[3] This sentence of Shaykh of Najd is strategically positioned. It connects with all that was before it and connects all that comes after it. Note he states, he forbade Shirk with Allah in acts of worship that should be done for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) alone. He then goes on to list the acts which are for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) alone and acts in which no Shirk should be comitted, amongst them is, prostration. Even though he stated the whole in general context I will contextualise it to prostration. He says, prostration is due right of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and no one from the creation should be prostrated to with/beside Him. Obvious conclusion would is if prostration is performed for anyone other then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) than according to Shaykh of Najd creation would be given share of which is exclusive for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and therefore [according to his methodology] Shirk would occur. Position Modern Khawarij On Sajdah Being Worship: The theological descendants of reviver of Kharijism, Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab an-Najdi also consider the act of prostration as worship. These are prominent Shuyukh and to name some of them, Shaykh Ibn Baaz, Shaykh Abd Al-Razzaq Afeefi, Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Qa’ood, Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Ghadyaan also share this view. These Shuyukh of Khawarij were/are permanent memebers of Saudi state sponsored committee – official representatives of Shaykh of Najd’s teachings – and they have said: “It is not permissible to bow in greeting to a Muslim or to a kafir, not with the upper part of the body or with the head, because bowing is an act of worship and worship can only be done for Allah alone.”[4] This Fatwah was regarding bowing and not prostrating. Shar’ri rule is, anything greater then the least is also in the ruling of least. Hence logically any position showing more reverance then bow would also be considered worship, and Shirk. In another Fatwah they clearly stated: Making Sujud and sacrificing for anyone other than Allah is Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship). People who indulge in any of these practices after being aware of the ruling of doing so, are Mushriks (people who associate others with Allah in worship) and Kafirs (disbelievers).[5] There we have it, a clear emphatic, statement which states, prostrating anyone other then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is Shirk. Another scholar of Khawarij also writes prostration to other than Allah is Shirk: "This is the example the author has given, saying: “What falls into this is performing sacrifices to someone other than Allah, such as the person who offers a sacrifice to the Jinn or to a grave” or to the Messenger or to one of the angels and so on. More examples are such as when someone makes an oath to other than Allah, or bows and prostrates to other than Allah, or when someone makes Tawaaf (circumambulation) around other than the House of Allah, seeking nearness to Allah by doing that, or any other form of Shirk. So if someone amongst the created beings commits Shirk in his worship of Allah, his Islam and Religion become nullified. This is the first Nullifier. We ask Allah to save and protect us from it."[6] They arrived to this understanding because they deluded themselves with belief that prostration by its very nature is worship. Yet Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) and teaching of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aaihi was’sallam) belies their distortion of religion of Islam. Please refer to following articles for decisive refutation of their misguided belief, here, here. Conclusion: It is known that Khawarij declared Muslims to be disbelievers for the sins and Wahhabis are no different in regards to Takfir of those who commit major sin. Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, declared that anyone who prostrates to a grave as a jesture of respect is polytheist because he is guilty of major Shirk. Prostration to ghayrullah to demonstrate the love/respect one has is not major Shirk as it was demonstrated with evidences. Prostration is Haram and acting on Haram is major sin but not major Shirk. This establishes, like the Khawarij, the Wahhabis also make Takfir of Muslims due to sins. Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen. Muhammed Ali Razavi Footnotes: - [1] “I tell you that– praise be to Allah – my belief and my religion, according to which I worship Allah, is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, which was the way of the imams of the Muslims, such as the four Imams and their followers until the Day of Resurrection. But I explain to people that they must devote their worship sincerely to Allah. I forbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and from associating them with Allah in any act of worship that should be done for Allah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one’s trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent. This is the Message which was proclaimed by all the Messengers, from the first of them to the last of them, and this is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. I hold a high position in my village and people listen to me. Some of the leaders denounced that because it goes against the customs they grew up with. I also obliged those who are under me to perform regular prayer, pay zakaah and fulfil other Islamic duties, and I forbade them to deal with ribaa, drink intoxicants and other kinds of forbidden things. The leaders could not criticize that or find fault with it, because it is something that is liked by the common folk, so they directed their criticism and enmity against that which I enjoin of Tawheed and that which I forbid of shirk, and they confused the common folk by saying that this goes against what everyone is doing, and they caused a great deal of fitnah…” [Ref: Al Durar Al Sanniyyah Fil Ajoobah Al Najdiyyah, by Shaykh Abdul Rahman Ibn Qasim V1, pages 64-65, pages 79-80] - [2] Shaykh of Najd says this because, he believes calling them is act of worship, which leads to major Shirk. - [3] This phrase serves two purposes, it could be that he is explaining his position, why he forbade the Muslims from calling upon Prophets and AwliyahAllah. Or it could be interpreted to mean that, he is arguing, I am the well-wisher of Muslims therefore I forbade them from committing Shirk in worship of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). It is not really important, if he was explaining his position or portraying himself as a well-wisher of Muslims by saying this, because in both cases the bottom line is, he believed Muslims are polytheists [and in light of his other writing, worse then the polytheists of pre-Islamic era] whom he was calling toward monotheism. - [4] “The third question of Fatwa no. 5313 - Q3: We joined a karate club in America. The coach said: "You should bow when your opponent bows to you". We refused and explained that this is against our religion. He agreed but said: "You should only gesture by your heads, for an opponent initiates a greeting by bowing and you should greet him back". What is your opinion on this? A: It's not permissible to bow to greet a Muslim or a non-Muslim whether by the upper part of the body or with the head, because bowing is a religious act of `Ibadah (worship) and `Ibadah should be devoted to Allah Alone. May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.” [Ref: FotPC, G1, V1, Venerating other than Allah] - [5] “The fourth question of Fatwa no. 4360 - Q4: Is it true that a person who testifies that Allah is the Creator and Provider, and that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is Allah's Messenger, and performs Salah (Prayer) is a Muslim even if they make Sujud (Prostration) to their shaykh and offer sacrifices for people other than Allah? A: Making Sujud and sacrificing for anyone other than Allah is Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship). People who indulge in any of these practices after being aware of the ruling of doing so, are Mushriks (people who associate others with Allah in worship) and Kafirs (disbelievers). Allah will not accept any of their deeds even if they offer Sawm (Fast) and Salah. Deeds of Mushriks are rejected. Moreover, if they die in this case, Allah will not forgive them. Allah (Exalted be He) says: Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills Allah also says, Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers. Also Allah (Exalted be He) says: But if they had joined in worship others with Allâh, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them. But if they return to Allah in sincere Tawbah (repentance to Allah) before death, Allah will forgive them, as Allah (Exalted be He) says: Say: “O ‘Ibâdî (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allâh: verily, Allâh forgives all sins. Muslim scholars unanimously agree that this Ayah (Qur'anic verse) speaks about repentant people. As for the Ayah of Surah Al-Nissa': Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills , it speaks about the unrepentant people, namely, those who died in Kufr (disbelief) and sin. May Allah protect us from that. May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.” [Ref: FotPC, G1, V1, Prostration before anyone other than Allah, and slaughtering animals for them] - [6] Nawaqid Al Islam, authored by Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab. Quote from its commentary, Sharh Nawaqid Al Islam, by Shaykh Abdul Azeez ar-Rajihee, Trans by Abu Isma’eel Alarcon.

https://archive.org/details/AlMustadrakAlSahihainAlImamHakimUrduByFactofislamsms.wordpress.com neecya, right hand side, download, pdf ka option heh.

Introduction: Sajdah (i.e. prostration) in Islam when performed in Salah is worship. Opponents of Muslims believe even if prostration performed out side of Salah to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) without intention of worship, and performing it for a creation without belief of Ilahiyyah/Mabudiyyah, is still act of worship. Why This Article Was Needed: It is commonly believed amongst the leaders and common Khawarij that prostration by its very nature is worship in Shari’ah of RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam). As a result of this belief the Khariji leadership and their common folk make Takfir of those foolish Muslims who due to ignorant prostrate to a deceased righteous servant of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Which has primarily resulted from having no education of Islam and also due to excessive reverance for deceased righteous servant of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Even though the action of foolish Muslim is contempt of Shari’ah because prostration of reverance for anyone other then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is prohibited in Islam. But charging them of major Shirk on grounds of a action which has been prohibited and which in reality is major sin is also display of excessive. The correct and balance approach in this regard would be to educate the foolish Muslim and inform him that RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) prohibited prostration to ghayrullah and it is major sin. Alhasil objective of article is to establish from Quran and Sunnah that prostration by its very nature is not worship. And to protect the Islam of foolish Muslims as well as their lives and property from the followers of Khariji Shaykh, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab. They believe it is permissible to take the life, robb the property, and enslave the women of, any Muslim who performs prostration to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because they believe such a Muslim is guilty of major Shirk, and therefore as become apostate. And yet in Shari’ah of RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam), the blood, property and honour of Muslim is protected as long as he professes, there is none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Prostration By Very Nature Is Gesture Of Respect: Sajdah by its very nature is sign of respect but when it is coupled with belief of Ilahiyyah and intention of worship then it becomes worship. As in Islam, belief of Ilahiyyah is affirmed for Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) but if a Muslim does not intend to worship Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) then his action of prostration will not be considered worship. Or if belief of Ilahiyyah is affirmed for a creation of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) but no intention and no action is performed for worship then creation is not worshipped. But despite this person is polytheist because a creation has been associated as a partner with Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala). Fundamentally in Islam, belief, intention and action all have to be in accordance with Islamic teaching for worship to take place. Prostration Of Worship Is For Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala): Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has mentioned faith before the actions of bowing and prostrating: “O you who have believed, bow and prostrate and worship your Lord and do good - that you may succeed.” [Ref: 22:77] "For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship you Him: this is a Straight Way." [Ref: 43:64] Those who have believed in Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) as their only Rabb and Ilah/Ma’bud have been adressed and told to bow/prostrate to Him. Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) is reported to have said: "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for." [Ref: Bukhari, B1, H1] Therefore intention of worship precede actions of worship and what precedes the intention is belief of Ilahiyyah. In simple words, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) in verse 22:77 mentioned, belief and action, Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) with the Hadith inserted the intention between the two, by saying actions are rewarded upon intentions. Prostration Of Reverance Performed For Creation: Numerous verses of Quran state, Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) instructed the angels to prostrate of Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) as a gesture of respect: “And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.” [Ref: 2:34] “And We have certainly created you (O Mankind), and given you (human) form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.” [Ref: 7:11] “And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.” [Ref: 18:50] As par logic of opponents of Islam, it would be correct to say, the only true monotheist present amongst angels was Iblees the Jinn. In another verse we find Prophet Yaqoob (alayhis salaam) prostrating to his son, Prophet Yusuf (alayhis salaam) as a mark of respect: “And he raised his parents high on the throne and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.” [Ref: 12:100] And based on this we say, prostration of reverance is not Shirk had it been Shirk Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) would not have commanded the angels to prostrate to Prophet Adam (alayhis salaam) nor would a sinless Prophet would have prostrated to another sinless Prophet. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) states: “There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.” [Ref: 12:111] What do we learn from the story of angels and Prophet Yaqoob (alayhis salaam) prostrating to his son? Answer me, O Khawarij, if you’re men of understanding. You have no portion of book of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) because you have gone through it like an arrow goes through the games body – and your understanding of it is only little. The righteous men of Ummah of Islam have learnt from these verses that prostration to other then Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) out of reverance is not Shirk. And Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) as part of detailed explanation of these verses has explained that prostration of reverance for creation is prohibited. Prostration To Ghayrullah Is a Major Sin: Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) states: “If you avoid the major sins, which you are forbidden, We will remove from you your lesser sins and admit you to a noble entrance (into Paradise)." [Ref: 4:31] “Those who avoid the major sins and immoralities, only (committing) slight ones. Indeed, your Lord is vast in forgiveness. He was most knowing of you when He produced you from the earth and when you were fetuses in the wombs of your mothers. So do not claim yourselves to be pure; He is most knowing of who fears Him.” [Ref: 53:32] In these verses Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) has refferenced actions which result major sin as major sin. See Tafsir Ibn Kathir: “Allah said: ‘If you avoid the great sins which you are forbidden to do, We shall remit from you your (small sins).’ Meaning, if you avoid the major evil deeds that you were prohibited We will forgive you the minor evil deeds and will admit you into Paradise.” [Ref: Tafsir Ibn Kathir, 4:31] The verse says, avoid [actions of] major sins, and then says, [actions] which are forbidden. Action of prostration to ghayrullah is prohibited and evidence of it follows. It is recorded in Hadith that when Hadhrat Muadh Ibn Jabal came back from greater Syria (i.e. Shaam) he prostrated to Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) out of respect for him because he had seen Christians prostrating to their Bishops and Patricians: “It was narrated that: Abdullah bin Abu Awfa said “When Muadh bin Jabal came from Sham, he prostrated to the Prophet who said: 'What is this, O Muadh?' He said: 'I went to Sham and saw them prostrating to their bishops and patricians and I wanted to do that for you.” Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) prohibited him from prostrating and said: “Do not do that. If I were to command anyone to prostrate to anyone other than Allah, I would have commanded women to prostrate to their husbands.” [Ref: Ibn Majah, B9, H1853] These final words of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was’sallam) are also narrated in another Hadith: “Abu Hurairah narrated that The Prophet said: “If I were to order anyone to prostrate to anyone, then I would order the wife to prostrate to her husband.” [Ref: Tirmadhi, B7, H1159] Alhasil prostration to ghayrullah is major sin because it is prohibited. Conclusion: Prostration by very nature is gesture of respect/reverance. If belief of Ilahiyyah is affirmed, and intention of worship is made, and action of prostration is carried out, then that prostration of respect is worship. And in Islam prostration is to anyone other than Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) is prohibited and one who engages in it is guilty of major sin. Anyone who claims prostration to ghayrullah with intention of respect is worship has claimed something for which there is no proof. Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen. Muhammed Ali Razavi

Salam alayqum, Meray bhai kabi kitab khud dekh leeya karen. Ek safa agay likha heh kay RasoolAllah say woh ilm e ghayb chupa heh joh bila-wasta ho. Ham toh RasoolAllah ka ilm e ghayb wasta e illahi mantay hen. Is'see kitab ka aur isee chapter ka pura bab par lenh, baat wazia ho jahay gee. Yeh lenh, direct link heh bab ka: http://www.pirsahibgolrasharif.com/Books/Ala%20Hazrat%20sahib/Eelaa%20au%20kalimat%20illah/Eelaa%20au%20kalimat%20illah.html#p=117 Pir Sahib rehmatullah nay bi wohi tareef e ilm e ghayb ki heh joh Sahib e Jaa Al Haq nay ki heh. Baqi pir sahib nay Ilm e ghayb joh Allah ka heh. Pir sahib ki ibarat heh; "... jis par hawadis ka inkishaaf farmatay hen toh yeh ilm e ghayb mein dakhal nahin ..." Ilm e Ghayb ko jumla ma qabal ki taraf lotaya yehni: "... ghayb naam heh us cheez ka jo hawas o zahira o batina kay idrak o ilm badi aur istidlali say ghayb ho ..." Toh ibarat ka mafoom yeh hoga, "... jis par hawadis ka inkishaaf farmatay hen toh yeh ilm e ghayb [jo hawas o zahira o batina kay idrak o ilm badi aur istidlali say ghayb ho] ghayb mein dakhal nahin ..." Aur Pir Sahib nay esay ilm ko Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) say mansoob keeya: "Aur yeh ilm Hazrat Haq subhanahu kay saath mukhtis heh." , Yehni esa ilm e ghayb Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) kay leyeh khaas heh aur yahi aqeeda e ahle islam heh. Aur jis Deobandi nay is ko qubul keeya, us nay nazriyat e ahle islam ko qubul keeya. Phir Pir Sahib RasoolAllah (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) kay ilm e ghayb ki nisbat farmatay hen: "Aap (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) say manfi woh ilm e ghayb heh joh bila-wasta ho." Jis say sabat huwa kay Pir Sahib Ilm e Ghayb bila wasta kay makhfi honay ka nazria rakhtay hen Ilm Ghayb ba-wasta e illahi kay munkir nahin. Agay mazeed is'see ilm e ghayb ba-wasta e illahi ko Pir Sahib nay itla ghuyub mein gina. Ek aur khaas baat, pir Sahib rehmatullah nay sirf itlahat e Ghayba kay baray mein kalam farmaya heh - mushaydaat aur samat e ghuyub par kalam nahin farmaya. Is'see waja say Pir Sahib nay yeh uppar wali behas ki.

Salam alayqum Mujjay woh reference darkar hen jin say Allah kay Nabi kay hukum ki na farmani kabeera guna hona sabat ho. Dosra Sajda e tazeemi ka guna kabira honay kay dalahil.

Salam alayqum, Mein wesay videos waghera share nahin karta, magar youtube par search kay doran ek video milli, jissay dekh kar bhot mussarrat huwi. Sunni bhaiyoon nay baray zabardast andaaz mein Deobandiyoon kay propaganda ka jawab deeya heh, I bhaiyoon kay leyeh dua karen, kay Allah in ki jaan o maal o iman ko salamat rakhay aur mazeed towfeeq deh, esay unda jawabat denay ki.